Reccording a Jazz quartet - your advice please ? (especialy BD mics)

[salvator]

Hello,

I have to reccord a Jazz band, live in the studio.
It's my first time with jazz and I'm extited like a child

There is Electric GTR, Sax, Contrebasse (double bass in english ?) and Drums. The BD is a 20", but don't know the brand for now.

I've heard good thing on the Audix D6 with BD.
Does that would be well suited for jazz ? I'm thinking of spending around 300 Euros, so a AKG D112 can be in the contest too.

What do you think ? Will not be able to have both to compare.
Any other contender for that (cheap) price ?

I already have an M88TG, an M149, 2x 414 ULS, a U87, a Rhodes NTV, 2x vintage Beyer M160, a BPM CR 73 and SM57's.
Preamp are a 9098 EQ, a Avalon 737, 2 ch of 1272, 2 ch of Fidelta PAM-1 (it's audiofile, kind of Millenia SM2B) and ...... my tascam board

Anyone with experience/tips, suggestions with that kind of setup ? Musicians are great.

Thanks in advance,

Salvator

PS : I plan to put the pres in the tracking room, next to mics...

[adamcal]

I like a nice old fasioned AKG D12 out front on jazz kik, Boof

[salvator]

Hello adamcal,

Thanks for your response.

Seems that the D12 ain't still in production... what is a good price in the used field for those ? Do you have one to sell ?

Salvator

[adamcal]

You see them on ebay from time to time, and prices vary on condition, but there is no way Id sell mine.

Apparently I got one very last ones AKG sold new. Mine is a D12e, same as a D12 with a little more top.

there is also the D20 and D25 and most likley a few more variations that Im sure someone here can fill you in on better than me.

[dtobocman]

Look for a used RE20. Also placed out in front of the kick.

[fifthcircle]

If you feel you need a kick mic at all (try micing drums from in front and you may not need it), look at the Sennheiser E602, or perhaps a 421...

I'm not a huge fan of the D112 (even though I own one) for jazz as it is too "thumpy" sounding.

In Jazz, the kick is often just another drum in the set. It does not have the same rhythmic importance as the ride, snare, or perhaps high-hat have.

--Ben

[toledo3]

For jazz, I agree with the D112 comments. I would go for some kind of ld condenser. I think that many of the cheap chinese mics are very suitable for kick.

[PRS1JAZZ]

Sorry about being repetitive.....but in the mic category I would grab a pair of TC30K from Earthworks.....they are born for small jazz groups!

[toledo3]

Originally posted by PRS1JAZZ
Sorry about being repetitive.....but in the mic category I would grab a pair of TC30K from Earthworks.....they are born for small jazz groups!

I don't disagree with the fact that the earthworks mics are great, but if you can't get it done with the list of mics he already has, you should hang up your hat!

[PRS1JAZZ]

Originally posted by toledo3
I don't disagree with the fact that the earthworks mics are great, but if you can't get it done with the list of mics he already has, you should hang up your hat!

lol.....agreed!!!!
Hey, just wanted to put it on the table.....again....

[toledo3]

[salvator]

Thanks all for your comments.

I don't disagree with the fact that the earthworks mics are great, but if you can't get it done with the list of mics he already has, you should hang up your hat!

It reassures me quite a bit because I was getting on my nerves not having the earthworks... nor the money for them
Oh, damn i think I am durst with GEARSLUTZ !

So if I understand, I'll better stick with for say a Rhodes NTV or M149 concerning the BD ?

Wife will be happy If that time I don't have to throw money away from my bank account !

So if I do like that =

Drums OH : 2 x ribbon M160 thru Fidelta PAM-1 (tube) or 1272
BD : M149 w/out pre
Sax : U87 thru 737
GTR amp : 414 thru 9098

Does that make sense for you ? For sax micing are you sometimes using a 2nd mic ?

Stuff will be recorded to digital medium

Thanks,

Salvator

[dtobocman]

What about the bass? I'd want to save the M149 for the upright bass (through the 1272) and look at a different LDC (the other 414? NTV?) out in front of the kick (also through the 1272, which should help smooth some of the highs).

[dtobocman]

... and oh yeah, don't get too close to that guitar amp with the 414. 2-3 feet away for a good jazz tone (should sound like how the guitarist hears it, not like a close-mic'd album rock sound). You can try the M88 instead, or in addition, right up on the amp (or better, behind it if it's an open back cabinet -- flip polarity).

[7rojo7]

bon soir salvator,
M149 pour le contrebasse avec le 9098. M149 with the 9098 for the "standup" (in american).
2x 414 pour reprendre la chambre et pour localiser tous les instruments de dans un vrai champ stereo , preferiblment avec le tascam. Apres il faut que tu alligne tous les instruments et abasser la niveau des ces mics.. The 414s seem to be the only real pair that you have, put them somewhere that sound good in x/y or in blumlein.
You have some good mics. save your money for a better console, now there are tons of good deals.
Bpm on the Sax, with the good pre. Rode on the guitar with the goood pre. Your looking to detail the harmonics (intimacy) of these instruments.
Think of the 160s as flashlights, don't get too close, reverse ORTF works good with these, point them where they need to be pointed, don't worry about "stereo", 1272s, 87 in front of the kit avec l'Avalon, make sure it works with the 160s and make sure that it works for the whole kit, not only the kik. It's easier to hear when something is out of phase, I flip one mic out of phase and move it around untill it sounds completely out then I flip it back, never fails.
Make bleed work for you, you may only have to gobo off the drummer a bit and dog house the guitar amp. They sound better like this any way.
It works like this sometimes; drums off to the right ambience to the left, bass in the center ambience to the right, gtr to the left ambience way left, sax to the right ambience to the left. Your most rhythmic instruments are most likely to be the drums and the gtr. you have to give them space to dialoguer.
monitor mix is very important
try out their setup before they arrive, don't waste their time getting sounds. scratch and shout test each possibility.
PAX

[salvator]

oops,

I've missed this one..; it's late in France and I definitively need some break out.

Thanks for the advice. For smoothing out the HiFreq, I also like my Sintefex unit wich contain Quantegy tape sample @15ips. That make very nice compression too, but it's "only" a 2 ch version ...

One think I'd like to have is a great band at my disposal to test, test, test and test...

Your advice about distance has enlighten me. I was about to do like i am used to do with rock canbs !
Even if that seem so logical... bad habits...


There lots of good advice here, I will print them out.

The room sound 'quite' good, even if it not very big : 40m². I plan to split it in 2 equal parts with a plexyglass windows. Drummer will be alone in one side.
Ceiling heigh is 2.80 meters. Wood floor & hard wall (the lower portion of the wall are wood too). Some acoustic foam for few flutter echo. Not very diffuse though.

I can put the GTR amp outside the room, or build a isolation box.

The monitoring will be 30m away in the studio.

What about altiverb for recreating a natural space ?

Salvator

PS : And the main artist is the Guitarist.

[Han]

Are you confused already Salvator?

My first choice for the saxophone would be the M149.

Forget about the 57's.

[adamcal]

For jazz, I agree with the D112 comments. [/QUOTE]

remember a D12 and D112 are very different mics.