Recording at 192 khz on a MOTU Traveler?

[Bodymusic]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

Thats a really good read!! Thanks for that!

I'll second that

Originally Posted by zakco

The best form of SRC is probably the "accidental" variety that happens when you come out of your DAW via a high end D/A to access analog outboard gear. Once the audio is analog, sample rate is irrelevant until it is recaptured. At that point you could concievably capture the audio at both 44.1 and higher simultaneously. You could archive the higher rate for potential future release on high def media and use the 44.1 version for a current release on CD. sort of the best of both worlds....-Z-

Apologies Z, not fully with you on the above- please excuse my lack of understanding here.

I'm looking to record 2-channel vinyl and FM radio in as high quality as possible (which haven't tried so far other than with a cheap Marantz CD recorder!). Rather than ask questions, perhaps I should tell you what equipment I own:

1) High-end tube based hifi system (vinyl and FM radio). Also, CD transport and seperate upsampling DAC (96kHz/192kHz)

2) Probably about to buy highish end AD converter, possibly Mytek.

3) Desktop Windows PC, Athlon 64, 1.5GB, SATA HD 300GB. CD drive only- no DVD.

4) M-Audio Audiophile PCI card (only to enable S/PDIF input)

5) Currently, no audio software but maybe buy Wavelab or Soundforge (plus Voxengo to record at 88.2 kHZ and downsample to 44.1)

I mainly want to record vinyl and FM radio to CDR but also store additional copy at higher sample rate for future high resolution format (blue ray or beyond etc)

You said that 'the best form of SRC conversion is the 'accidental' variety. Not sure what you mean by that or how it might relate to the above equipment and recording process.

Regards.

BM

-PS- Nonsense, I hope this all relates to the topic of the thread.

[zakco]

OK, after reading your latest post I can see that this probably doesn't apply to your situation as you won't be leaving the digital domain with your audio. But....I will do my best to explain it anyways....it's probably far simpler than you think.

Example:

-Mastering studio recieves mixes at 96k

-Audio is sent out high end DAC to analog processing chain. At this point there is NO SAMPLE RATE...meaning the audio is ANALOG.

-Audio is processed using a variety of analog outboard EQs/Dynamics etc...

-Audio is routed back to A/D converter to be recaptured at whatever sample rate the engineer prefers. If the mix is recaptured at 44.1 the result is that digital sample rate conversion was NEVER applied.

It's NOT that this method is BETTER is just that if you are going into the analog domain anyways, you can take advantage of the fact that digital SCR is not required. That's what I meant by "accidental" it's a by-product if you will....

Is that clearer?

Now having said all that, your best bet will probably be to do exactly what you're planning. Buy the best A/D you can afford, capture at 88.2 or 96 or whatever...and try a variety of digital SRConverters for downsampling (the voxengo app looks interesting) and pick the one that SOUNDS THE BEST TO YOU. If you don't hear a difference then don't worry about it.

-Z-

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Nonsense

Yes, well I thought I'd record all the tracks as 192 and then downsample it to 44 for mixing and mastering.

Much food for thought at high end interface designer Dan Lavry's PSW forum:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/38/15450/



BTW, the converter chips in other MOTU gear is actually the same as in some very expensive gear. But there's a LOT more to building a good interface than just picking a converter chip off a product sheet.

And with regard to optimal sampling rates, Lavry has some very definite ideas that appear to be well founded in science -- but put a real crimp in the more-is-better philosophy that sells new rounds of gear every few years. (To cut to the chase and perhaps oversimplify a bit, Lavry thinks the optimal sample rate is between 60 kHz and 70 kHz for audio. Above that, he says, and other factors start interfering with accurate sampling. But he accepts 88.2 and 96 as reasonable compromises -- but he does recommend avoiding SRC from rates that are not an even multiple of the target rate when possible, though he allows as how modern SRC algos are pretty good, as I understand it.)

In addition to Lavry, there are some other very knowledgeable regulars there. Of course, being a BB, you get all types there, as well.

Some of the threads are highly informative -- and some are a riot! One of Lavry's bugaboos appears to be absurd marketing pseudo-science, which he loves to skewer. The seemingly endless thread on digital interconnect lengths is a laff riot, for sure.

[Bodymusic]

Originally Posted by zakco

Is that clearer?

-Z-

Sure is! Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by zakco

Now having said all that, your best bet will probably be to do exactly what you're planning. Buy the best A/D you can afford, capture at 88.2 or 96 or whatever...and try a variety of digital SRConverters for downsampling (the voxengo app looks interesting) and pick the one that SOUNDS THE BEST TO YOU. If you don't hear a difference then don't worry about it.
-Z-

If you were to record in 88.2kHz, downsample to 44.1 and also keep a copy at 88.2 to be used in whatever future format eventually takes over, where would you store this audio now? I only have a 300 GB HD so couldn't store much on that but how about on DVD, would that be the best place? (PC has a cheap OEM DVD recorder drive).


BM

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Bodymusic

I only have a 300 GB HD so couldn't store much on that but how about on DVD, would that be the best place? (PC has a cheap OEM DVD recorder drive).

I heard a quote one time (not sure where) "Digital data only truly exists when it exists in 2 places at once"

I'll add preferably 2 different mediums...
While I'm actively working on a project it is stored on my DAW's internal drive and backed up on a daily basis to a FW drive. I have 2 of these backup drives and I rotate them so I always have an extra day to fall back on...also, they leave the building with me at night when I leave. What good is a backup that burned up with the original in a fire?

When a project is finished I archive it to 2 sets of DVD-R discs. I store one here at the studio and the client gets the other. I also tell them to copy it to their home computer as a safety. Some follow my advice some don't.

Remember it's not if your hardrive will crash - it's when
.

-Z-