Level matching question

[edwinhurwitz]

Twice now I have gone to record with my splitters, etc only to find that for one reason or another, I can't use them and I have to take direct outs from a console. The problem I have faced both times is that the level from the direct outs is very hot, too much for the 1/4" inputs in my RME and Presonus preamps or the inputs for my HD24. Should I build a 24 channel pad or is there some other solution when I find myself stuck like this again?

TIA
Edwin

[Remoteness]

Edwin,

Okay, a few questions…

What kind of splitters are you talking about – Mic or line level?
What brand are they?
What type of transformers is in this box?
Could they be an active split?
An active splitter can give you about 3 dB or so more level.
Passive transformer splits can give you about 3 dB less level.

If you take the transformer output of your splitter you will have a 3 dB reduction in level of the bat.
Maybe that’s the quick fix you're looking for?

I’m a knucklehead at times so… To be clear, are you talking about the splitter or console’s direct outs?
I assume you’re taking the direct outs from the desk so you can adjust the gain to RME and Presonus. Right?

We build (and sell) 20 channel pad blocks which are basically 20 circuits on a PC board that can be installed straight to a 1 U patch bay or utility box. We stuff the proper resistors on these custom made boards as per our needs or the project’s spec.

We happen to be building a 52 channel pad bay for Elroy at the moment. It shall have (12) -30 dB, (20) -20 dB and (20) -10 dB pads all on one Bantam (TT) bay. We wired and placed three PC boards (one is short loaded) right behind the jacks. It’s really a sweet deal. No XLR barrels to look for or get lost (walk) for that matter.

[edwinhurwitz]

Thanks for getting back to me!
Actually, the problem is when I am not using splitters, but going directly, via 1/4" cables, from a FOH or monitor console's direct outs. In listening back to last night's recording, it's not as bad as I had thought, but there is still a bit of clipping here or there.

What I am looking for is a way to pad the 1/4" level from the board. Your circuit board may be the way to go, or perhaps, since I'd have to make a case and put ins and outs into it, I could just wire a handful of resistors right onto the jacks. This will mean a lot more 1/4" snakes. I guess I could also manufacture some 1/4" snakes with the pads right in the connectors.

Thanks again!
Edwin
PS How much are those boards?

[Remoteness]

Yup, that sounds very cool. I should show you the custom PC boards I put together.

I also have the resistor calculator formula somewhere...

I'll try to get some pictures of the boards and stuff for your review.

I believe there are five resistors per pad. It maybe a very tight fit in a normal 1/4" connector. Consider going with the larger (speaker style) 1/4" connectors. There's plenty of workable space in those since they normally handle larger gauge speaker cable.

It sounds like you didn't have adjustable direct outs so, why not add some additional headroom by not hitting the desk's mic pres so hard. In any event, pads are very helpful but, locking yourself into a "pad" snake maybe a potential problem if there's too much attenuation (or not enough for that matter...) Having a box or bay with a variety of attenuation options that can be patched around will be a much more flexible situation.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

It sounds like you didn't have adjustable direct outs so, why not add some additional headroom by not hitting the desk's mic pres so hard. In any event, pads are very helpful but, locking yourself into a "pad" snake maybe a potential problem if there's too much attenuation (or not enough for that matter...) Having a box or bay with a variety of attenuation options that can be patched around will be a much more flexible situation.

Sometimes you don't have control over the desk's pres! :-)

I agree that the pad snake is limiting, but I have found it to be a pretty consistent situation. Had I really been thinking, I would have not used the HD24, but my MIO2882 instead, as it has variable input levels and impedances, but after standing around for 2 hours, I only had about 15 minutes to make a decision and go with it.

Edwin

[Remoteness]

How many dB attenuation are you talkin' about? What's a comfortable range for your situations?

Sometimes -10 dB isn't enough.
Sometimes -20 dB is too much and...
Sometimes -30 db is a must.
Anything is possible in our world of live recording.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

How many dB attenuation are you talkin' about? What's a comfortable range for your situations?

Sometimes -10 dB isn't enough.
Sometimes -20 dB is too much and...
Sometimes -30 db is a must.
Anything is possible in our world of live recording.

Well, I am thinking -30 might be the way to go. That way I can go in the 1/4" ins of my pres and have plenty of control. I know it's an additional gain stage, but given that it's a compromised situation to begin with (and the ambient noise of most clubs I record in, etc), I don't think it's a big problem. With 24 bit recording going over is a much bigger problem that being a little low in level.

You are very right, anything is possible and usually probably in our world of live recording!

Edwin

[Remoteness]

With that said, -30 dB could be way too much and then -40 dB could be just right since you're coming from a line level source into those pres...

Man, oh man... when will it stop?