100 single ear headphones for orchestra

[klaukholm]

We need headphones (and distribution) for the entire orchestra for click only.
Requrements are:
price
acceptable bleed
acceptable comfort
not too bulky as we have to play with them on

What are your recommendations?

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

We need headphones (and distribution) for the entire orchestra for click only.
Requrements are:
price
acceptable bleed
acceptable comfort
not too bulky as we have to play with them on

What are your recommendations?

I've done many TV commercial sessions and some film scoring dates at Right Track studios in NYC. They seem to have plenty of those single side headphones. I'm not sure what kind of distrubution is being used. perhaps you can email them.

http://www.righttrackrecording.com/index.html

[klaukholm]

Ive done quite a few session myself, but I have not had to make a purchasing decision before.
I would love specific ideas from fellow slutz.

[Greg Curtis]

I just bought and used 5 of these for my small home studio while recording a string quartet on a pop album. They are very lightweight, very small, I could hear no click bleed at all, and the players really liked them as well (they actually told me they were great!). They are much better (lighter, better sound quality, more isolation) than the old singles I've used at Capitol and other major studios. Only problem is that the cords are short; you'll need to buy extensions.

http://www.topdjgear.com/stanton-djpro-300.html

Perhaps you could get a bulk discount!

For distribution I used this cheap, but good Rolls distribution box:

http://www.music123.com/Rolls-RA53b-...r-i99685.music

It has XLR and1/4" mono and stereo ins, RCA, and 3 insertion ins for 4 possible mixes. It is very solid and does the job well, but requires power (wall wart).

Hope your project goes well!

Greg

.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Ive done quite a few session myself, but I have not had to make a purchasing decition before.
I would love specific ideas from fellow slutz.

Find some slut that does film scoring dates, otherwise contact Right Track or some other scoring stage, I'm sure someone will give you good info.

[MBishopSFX]

A better xolution may be to supply the click to the conductor ONLY with no cans for the orchestra. That's what I've done with much larger orchestras/choruses than what you're dealing with. You're asking for problems with click bleed from 100 earphones in the room.

[klaukholm]

Thanks for your input Mr. Bishhop.
I like what you are saying, but we have a client that is asking for than many - we only supply the logistics for this session.

We often use click for the principal players only, which is why we are short of cans for this client.

[Bassmec]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Thanks for your input Mr. Bishhop.
I like what you are saying, but we have a client that is asking for than many - we only supply the logistics for this session.

The only thing that worries me is the first couple of sessions with an orchestra that is not used to working with a click. This orchestra plays way behind the conductors beat which could problems. I find the orchestras in the region that play regularly with a click play much more on the stick.

How many have mobile phones with hands free kit. Makes you think about bluetooth don't it these days. I remember my days at Maida Vale distributing and collecting Beyer DT single sided cans. If anything the real hassel was how much spare metal string that was in the studio.
Get some big plasma screen and get someone to make up a Kareoke style bouncing ball over a stave display. Or better still get an old kenton midi to cv & gate converter and a relay, a variable HT dc power supply and 100 lengths of bell wire with salt water soaked little foam pads get them to take 1 shoe off and attach the pads to their toes program the click and sync via mtc. Problem sorted! no need for distribution amps headphones ETC. If they loose the pulse then just turn the HT up, they will soon get it right and better than feeding the conductor the click, they can keep reading the fly shit. If you need a stronger down beat
just get another kenton box, relay and HT supply on a different midi channel and have that set do the somewhat stronger pulse. Think of the advantages no spill,
vastly reduced investment and perfect time keeping or else. Though you might get the odd spurious, aagh, ooh, errgh, shreak if you turn the supplys up a bit too much.
In todays studio engineering due to cost cutting its important to be able to improvise and make do and mend. Suffering for your art is very much in the parlance. If we have to suffer all that Vile Din section stuff, all of them without quite enough rosin on their bows. We should be able to get our own back so as to speak. Also have you chaps noticed that orchestras don't have any beer on the rider, they have thremos flasks of tea?. Look you swedish chaps you have a good symphonic rock band called Arch enema or something. Cant you just simplify matters and give Danny a ring he has no problem with a click and he drinks beer.
http://www.pearleurope.com/pearleuro...p?artistid=205

Now we have got down to just one set of cans. The rest can be tracked in the control room. If the Musical Director has a problem with this, I would suggest
you point out the economics involved, anyway you have bought all those fab compressors and gates and you want to use them, Right!. The room for 100 musos should sound good as a drum room with a few baffels. Thomas can do the strings on giga sampler.
Adrian his brother is here at one o'clock so I can ask him if his bro can get you sorted cheap. Job Done!
Regards.•:*¨¨*:•. ¸¸.•´¯`•.Mark Fairfax-Harwood, Engineer Springvale Studios

[doug_hti]

I just did a session at a facility that had Professional Sennheisser Wireless headphones.
I looked on Sennheisser's site and did not see them. We had over 55 of them out. They were eared on both sides, but had volume controls on each side. Most musicians still wore an ear off.

But going wireless really eliminates LOTS of cabling and LOTS of power amps, and setup time is axed by a good bit if you have to use the scoring stage for different applications.
I'm guessing the only downside is battery management. However, if you are not having sessions that large everyday...then....

In regards to click bleed, it's typically not an issue if you use the right click (MPC style).

[klaukholm]

This sounds pretty practical if it works. I am however concerned about RF problems. Particularly our DPA's are not great friends of RF, probably because of the unbalanced cabling they require.

[jmiller]

Originally Posted by doug_hti

In regards to click bleed, it's typically not an issue if you use the right click (MPC style).

Unless you're doing a Giacchino score

One thing that worries me about wireless... they will disappear. I'm probably being paranoid, but I can't even imagine a session without a few wireless earpieces growing legs. Not because of malign. Musicians just don't really think about that kinda stuff. I can recall severall sessions running out into the room because some musician said "I can't hear click" only to discover his headphones are wrapped around his knee, not his head.

I'm not trying to infer that they are stupid, far from it. It's just a different mentality. If I were using wireless, I would want the earphones to be really cheap and easily replaceable. I can just imagine a group of 100 musicians getting into their cars afterward with their phones still in their ears...

[zilver]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

This sounds pretty practical if it works. I am however concerned about RF problems. Particularly our DPA's are not great friends of RF, probably because of the unbalanced cabling they require.

I think there are systems (also from sennheiser) that use infrared.
Hans

[Harvey Gerst]

Forget the phones; have the timpani player play straight 4's on a cowbell !!

[firby]

I always use a different sound on the one. It is important. The first thing you learn after learning to play to a click is how to lean on one!

[Tibbon]

Click track for an orchestra? Maybe i'm missing something here. Isn't that what a CONDUCTOR is?

If it needs to be sync'd to something, just JUST the conductor the click, drumloops, vocals or whatever and have him use it. The orchestra follows the conductor.

I've also (oddly IMHO) seen them just use speakers and play whatever song out loud to the orchestra while recording it.

[ghellquist]

Look, Kjetil is a professional classical musician. In addition he does classical recording using top-of-the-line equipment doing on-location recordings. Seems like he has a crazy client coming in.

Gunnar

[zemlin]

I have no useful experience to draw on as far as orchestra recording goes, but what about a blinkin' light - or even one light per player - LEDs taped to the music stands ... etc. I can see that something audible might be better - but lights would be a lot simpler and cheaper - and silent too.

I, too, would have thought a conductor could get the job done.

[klaukholm]

I have regularly played sessions in 50 piece orchestras where we all had a click.

I just finished a session doing a whole disc of Charles Ives orchestral music.
there were several sections where I was dreaming of a click.

Imagine playing complex slow 5 against 4 with the conductor beating in 3 where you have to line up with players playing fluid time in pianissimo 60 feet away

this client knows what he is doing.
he is credited on a very long list of hollywood movies.

He may only use 50 or so, but the way we operate we make sure we have enough for every player if that should be needed as well as covering ourselves when we do two orchestras in one week.

so back to the question:

Which cans can you recommend given the original requirements.

We have one good suggestion - keep em' coming

[jmiller]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Click track for an orchestra? Maybe i'm missing something here. Isn't that what a CONDUCTOR is?

At least in L.A., the musicians expect click. Those who can't play to one are sent home. Conductor or not, you had better have click and phones set up by downbeat or you are toast.

The click always had to be "ridden". This helps with bleed, and is necessary as 50 headphones WILL leak click into the room during a dynamic score. Basically, the assistant would sit next to the click fader and ride it along with the score. The pressure is on when a cue needs to be done again because there was click bleed. The pressure is REALLY on when it happens again, AND the hornplayers (who insist on wearing their leak-happy, walkman style earphones) are saying they can't hear the click!

Kjetil, we used the Beyer one-eared headphones. I believe they were M60's but it's hard to remember. They worked very well.

[klaukholm]

Thank you Mr. Miller.
I am curious about the horn players. I personally think the LA session hornplayers are the best out there. Why do they dislike the one ear cans?

What amp distribution system do you like the best?

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

This sounds pretty practical if it works. I am however concerned about RF problems. Particularly our DPA's are not great friends of RF, probably because of the unbalanced cabling they require.

well this is where i recorded and it is loaded with DPAs.....

http://www.musa.cz/rudolfinum.php

[klaukholm]

For the record they have 150 of the wireless headsets, but they are infrared so RF should not be a problem. It would be nice to not have wires impeding your playing.

Could you please tell me how you set up the infrared transmitters?

[Haigbabe]

Hi.

I use cheap little radio/walkman things with earbuds. They cost $2 each. I pretune them to the freq of my transmitter and run the click through that (usually in to one channel). I can even run the click with automation written beforehand for the softer/louder passages.

Yes, I lose one or two a month. Still cheaper than alternatives.

Cheers,

Haigbabe