Mozart Requiem

[philper]

Liked your balance--they should be pleased.

phil p

[willi1203]

thanks
no news from them so far so... was wondering...

[Producerman]

Are my ears playing a trick or is it pretty distorted...

[willi1203]

hi producerman
In what way ?

[a4thtenor]

Balance sounds GREAT!! I like the stereo imaging too. Was this ms recording?

[willi1203]

AB omni orchestra / AB large cardioid choir

[grrrayson]

Are you joking? Sounds gorgeous. Lovely work.

[Bibster]

Was there a train to catch? very detailed sound, I like that. But lacks some low end. How did the confutatis come out? And the Lacrimosa? (My ref. recording is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Requi...4430909&sr=8-3 ) but maybe someone should educate me in turn!)

[willi1203]

Ah ah ! Yeah ! Tempi weren't slow !
I feared it was too muddy, but didn't EQ it at all.

[willi1203]

Dies Irae is a short piece and they played it well.... orchestra is a young players orchestra (not too much strings). choir is amateur... Other pieces and soloists not that good

[amfortas2006]

To me it also sounds a bit like the limiters are working most of the time or something..
Is this the original gain setting?

It could be the mechanical noise of the instruments (strings and the valves on the wind instruments), but in this tutti it's hard to hear becuase there is so much sound covering everything

[willi1203]

no, large amount of limiter

[boojum]

Originally Posted by willi1203

no, large amount of limiter

Willi, OK, I looked at it in SAM and the compression/limiting is apparent. I am curious if this is your normal technique or whether you normally use less limiter. I am just trying to get a feel for technique here and not being snarky. Thanks.

[willi1203]

Sad to say that but... I've been told " less loud than my other CDs" like any pop recording client.... So : as may clients are... hum... deaf....

[amfortas2006]

If you have to compress, why not use an upwards compressor (one from Waves is called MV2 I think) or volume envelope? Limiting is the worst way to my ears, and editing a file (reverb etc.) just never gets as nice on a limited file to my ears....
I tried normal compression some time ago, and never liked the sound of it nor the side-effects (primarily noise). The best compressors introduce less noise but I avoided pushing them harder then 3-4 dB at 1-1.5 or 1.8.
Emulated analog compressors introduce the biggest amounts of noise to my ears and sound less transparent.

[willi1203]

Hey guys, I'm becoming deaf too.... listened again to the files... tought it sounds horrible !

[amfortas2006]

Thank God you recorded that with some headroom, I tought you had the hardware limiters workin'

[boojum]

Originally Posted by amfortas2006

Thank God you recorded that with some headroom, I tought you had the hardware limiters workin'

I am confused if it was recorded with headroom and limiters or was fixed in post to give it headroom. Willi, can you give us your workflow here? Most likely it will be a cold day in hell before you let us pick apart another recording. Just kidding. I am curious how the peaks got to be "level" at about 30 seconds.

Thanks

[willi1203]

hey Boojum, Yes indeed recorded with headroom.

Don't get your question about level at 30'' ?

Eh no, I'm grateful I could change my settings ! I've had somme very busy weeks and didn't hear that awfull limiting...

[boojum]

Hi Willi - @~30" the right channel especially seems to be either compressed or clipping, i.e., its peaks are flat, level as if it clipped. I am not sure. If one channel were a bit clipped/compressed/limited and the other not or not so much would that affect the overall sound of both channels together?? I am not being cutesy Aristotilean here but honestly asking because I do not know.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by willi1203

Hey guys, I'm becoming deaf too.... listened again to the files... tought it sounds horrible !

I prefer this latter version because it is clearer.

[rumleymusic]

Sounds nice. To me though it sounds like the choir is overpowering the orchestra. I don't know if that is the spot mics or the performance. You might be able to cut the spots completely.

[boojum]

Willi, yes, the second with less limiter is more clear.

[Earcatcher]

So, what happens if you put 700 singers in the choir and place them in a 123 metres long church? Same piece of music, very different sound!

No limiting, no compression, no EQ, no artificial reverb. Just a mix of some mics. On request of the conductor I have given all room for natural reverb, to make it sound heavenly. Can you hear the angels sing?

[aracu]

The choir is distant, though clear, with dryer sounding instruments in a wide stereo image. The combination creates a foreground and background with
a lot of spatial depth, although somewhat fragmented.

[rumleymusic]

No limiting, no compression, no EQ, no artificial reverb. Just a mix of some mics. On request of the conductor I have given all room for natural reverb, to make it sound heavenly. Can you hear the angels sing?

I agree you need to work on the balance. Trumpets are up front and dry. Violins are isolated on the left and it is hard to hear the rest of the strings, The choir is very distant in comparison. I think priority one is getting the trumpets in the back of the orchestra where they belong.

[audibell]

Hi, Willi's recordings, both, are lovely representations of what happened. Limiting is unfortunate but probably necessary, rather than compressing, on what is to me the Carmina Burana bit of Mozart's wonderful last work. The basses & tenors are weaker than in Earcatcher's piece so that's no vice on Willi's part; if you bring the choir pair up, they'll un-blend. Aracu well summed up Earcatcher's presentation but it seems the conductor likes it this way, so what is a recordist to do?

Manley is the tool to use, rather than plug-ins.

Getting the trumpets in the back isn't going to happen unless it's all multi-mic'd or in a recital hall - the conductor was probably in the center aisle, the strings on the left and the woods/horns on the right in front of the communion rail and the chorus arrayed behind on the altar steps. If it was easy, every Uncle Milty would be doing it with his H4.

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by Bibster

Was there a train to catch? very detailed sound, I like that. But lacks some low end. How did the confutatis come out? And the Lacrimosa? (My ref. recording is Mozart: Requiem: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: Amazon.co.uk: Music ) but maybe someone should educate me in turn!)

I like the urgency and drama a faster tempo causes - Bernstein was similarly fast here: Mozart: Requiem: Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks: Amazon.co.uk: MP3 Downloads


The recording here sounds fine, don't know about limiting, but don't your clients listen to classical music if they are playing it? The average classical CD that sounds good is not any louder than this, I don't know how it sounded before limiting, though. Maybe you could do some transparent compression instead heavy limiting or even upward compression or riding faders a bit if it might sound even better? I don't know. It is rather fine as it is.

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

I agree you need to work on the balance. Trumpets are up front and dry. Violins are isolated on the left and it is hard to hear the rest of the strings, The choir is very distant in comparison. I think priority one is getting the trumpets in the back of the orchestra where they belong.

Imagine the whole orchestra and choir being placed SIDEWAYS in the length of the church. We are speaking about 700 singers here! They would never fit in the traditional setup. So, the orchestra is in front of the choir, squished to the left and right in the wooden corridor between conductor and choir. All instruments are exactly where you hear them, so that is where they "should" be in the recording. The choir is some 20 metres deep and 50 to 60 metres wide, so no wonder they sound a bit "distant". I was trying to illustrate how different the same piece can sound when you change the setting. Obviously this is a peculiar performance, but I love it anyway.