SAX and flute mics?

[funka]

Thank you guys!
As I wanted to replace my SE-1A pair with another statics pair for recording "acoustics"(and OHs), the peluso pair looks like a nice choice, not overpriced and good reviews.
For the beyer M160 ribbon, is it better than a AEA r84/r92, royer 121?...

So if I should begin with one ribbon mic, which one should it be?
The more all-round/flexible mic?

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by funka

For the beyer M160 ribbon, is it better than a AEA r84/r92, royer 121?...

So if I should begin with one ribbon mic, which one should it be?
The more all-round/flexible mic?

IMHO the beyer M160 is not in the same category as the AEA or Royer mics. The main advantage of the M160 is that it is a Hyper cardioid pattern. It is a great mic, but not in the same league as the R84, the Royer SF-1 or the R-121 or R-122. There are now many ribbon microphones on the market. One mic which you might want to look at is the Crowley & Tripp Naked Eye, which offers you two sounds depending on which side of the figure 8 pattern you choose to use. The C&T Proscenium is just an amazing mic, very big sounding and very balanced. That's another option.

Well, good luck with your purchases. Please let us know what you end up with.

Peace
Marco

[whitepapagold]

u87 sp mod

[Improv]

The variations are endless, of course. Here's my latest:

ADK Area 51 tube condenser through API 512c pre... About 2 feet away, halfway up the body, pointed slightly down toward the bell... distressor or trakker to taste. Fat and beautiful. Generally, I hate saxes, but this chain makes them tolerable to me.

[funka]

It is a great mic, but not in the same league as the R84, the Royer SF-1 or the R-121 or R-122

Among those and others ribbons in that league, what should be the "best" choice for the price?
The one I could use on many applications...

[jnorman]

funka doodah - of the current crop, i am fond of the SF-1, and the R84, the royer being a bit brighter and cleaner, the AEA haveing more body to the sound - depends on your application which will be better for you. any of the ribbons (except the royer models that have built in mic amps) will need some kick ass preamps with lots of gain (70+) - i used a little sonosax with my pair of r-121s on the advice of dave royer when i bought them, and it was very nice and portable. however, i still think the coles 4038 and the venerable old RCA d77 are the real cats meow of ribbons. check out lynn fuston's forum at 3D audio - there are many threads about ribbon mics there lately, as lynn is preparing another of his test comparison CDs (like the mic CD and preamp CD) for ribbon mics - ribbon roundup or something like that. he has also tried a bunch of the new chinesse ribbon mics.

[Sigma]

RCA 77 Dx, U 87

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by funka

Can some of you guys propose me some references that works fine to record SAX and/or flute? The must would be that I can use those mics for other purposes too...
AKG BXLS?
small or large diaphragms?...Tell me your experiences...

Thank you slutz

If you have lots of Francs or Euros or a gun, get an old U67, you cant go wrong. M49 or the new M149 will also be good all around mics. On the less expensive side of things, the Lawson L47 at $2000 US is as good as mics that cost double and is as vesitile as a U47/M49.

For under $1000 US, single pattern Neumanns are available, these are FET mics. On the "el cheapo" side of things, the EV re27 dynamic will work nicely on saxophone, brass, doublebass, bassdrum, and voice. Not sure about flute.

[drongo]

Interesting topic this. I have a sax/flute player coming in a couple of days and wouldn't mind the opinions of the board on this.

I have acoustic and vocal sessions that were done mostly with a Coles4040 (I just can't help using this all the time)

The only other overdubs will be either flute or sax depending on the song (maybe clarinet).

I have the following mics :
U87
Coles4040 *2
SM 57/58
Oktava small capsule * 2 (mk12)
At4033

Anyone suggest options....? I know the Coles will be good on the brass....I suppose it's the Flute that I'm most curious with - i.e. don't want to use Coles on everything...

I'd be keen to get as much 'percussion' from the flute as possible as the record is minimal instrumentation - should I double mic and use say

- U87 and Oktava

Opinions welcome....I'll be recording in a completely dead room - it's small.

Many thanks
Anthony

[kingneeraj]

Coles 4038!

[TanTan]

Beyer 160M is my go-to mic for sax, it's working great on sopran\alto\tenor saxes
for flute i love the Lawson L47C, if the flute part is on the highest flute octave (like in Cuban music) i'd try the Beyer to round it a bit

[rwhitney]

I'm a fan of the 4040, too.

Personally, I'd try the U87 on sax and clarinet; the Octava on flute. I'm not experienced with using multiple mics on these sources, but it couldn't hurt to try. I don't have any experience with the AT4033, either.

[AB3]

AEA R84 on flute - nice and rich. Soundelux E49 also very good.

[Jamz]

RCA 77dx, AEA R84

[taturana]

great results on flute with sdc km145 near mouthpiece and a ldc oktava mkl-2500 distanced for room ambience...

[funka]

Hi again,

Still in search of sax and flute mics...
I thought I will go with an MKH40 for flute, and probably AEA R94 or 92, or Sony C48 for sax.
What do you think? I thought the Sony might be more flexible...?
I already have 57, 421, M201, AT4050, Peluso CMC6 pair, D112 & EV868.
Musical genre will be oriental.

[sunflute]

Hello Funka,

You won't go wrong with the Sennheiser MKH 40 for flute. And you may also use those ribbons on flute as well.

Recently I tried a Jim Williams Modified AKG 460B. It is Really great on flute, and it is less expensive and more transparent than the MKH 40.

Peace
marco

[funka]

Hi sunflute,

Will a factory new 480+ck61 do the same job?
Or does it need to be modified also to have nearly the same sound as an old 460?
The fact is I can get a good price on a used MKH40.

Otherwise, for the other microphone for sax? Which one would you advice me, the most flexible that I could use on many other things than sax?
I heard the AEAR92 has less proximity effect than the AEAR84, and was a little "brighter". The Sony C48 looks like a good workhorse too, not ribbon.
Any other suggestion? In the same ballpark, that will compliment my current microphones.

[sunflute]

Hello Funka,

If you can get a good price on a MKH40, go for it.

As per Jim Williams himself.....A modded 460B will sound better than a
stock 480, but the 480 will sound better than an unmodified 460B.

I am not familiar with the Sony or the AEA R92, but the R84 is a Great mic, and I think you will find lots of uses for it. R84 is really great on Flute, specially slow, mellow music genres.

Peace
Marco

[mltamisin]

Beyer M160 sounds great to me. Not too expensive either.

[Legacy]

Hi All,

I really like the Crowley and Tripp Proscenium also for Flute - sweet and dark. You can get closer without getting undesirable sounds if you're careful about positioning.

I've also liked the Proscenium on Sax -alto and tenor (too dark for Bari for me). very *sweet* sound. If you want more bite it mixes nicely with a U67 or other large d. condenser.

-Silas

[funka]

The genre will be oriental, quite dynamic and not so slow.

Yes, the AKG would have been another good contender.

For the sax mic, does other GS have some advices for a mic that will allow me to use it on many other things too(vox, acoustics, drum room, FOK...), and that will sound good on sax?

Apart from the AEA R84 that seems a good one, is there other options?
Anyone have some experience with the Sony C48? Other ideas? MA-200?...? Peluso R14?...
Under 1500$ if possible for the sax mic.

It's up to you guys...

[sunflute]

Agree with both of the previous posts:

mltamisin - Yes the M160 is a great mic both for flute and sax.

Silas, I also agree with you about the Proscenium (I have a matched pair). They are dark but they have high frequency definition not found in other ribbon mics.

Peace
Marco

[funka]

Thanks mltamisin & legacy.

The beyer is hypercardio, no?

The saxphonist will move a bit while playing, perhaps a more large pattern will help, or not?

Ah, also, the flute and sax will be recorded at the same time, for better feeling between the players, so I won't be able to use a mic on boths instruments.

[Jake Dempsey]

I did a session with a flute player (or floutist ) a few months ago. I ended up going with a Peluso R14 ribbon in the big room about 3-4 feet in front of the flute at head level through a Portico pre.

The peluso was just the right fit. Nice and mellow, and the mids were just right. Picked up the room in a nice way. I'll go back to the R14 for flute after that. I've used the R14 on alto sax with similar, smooth results. No harshness. Nice signal right into the box.

Anyone ever record sax with a 421?

[funka]

Thank you for those other options.
D2 is cheap, and R14 also.
Nice to see that the R14 can sound nice on those two sources.