Remote Possibilities in alternative snare mics!

Jay Kahrs · 3rd September 2002, 05:34 PM

I guess it's pretty safe to assume that almost everyone defaults to an SM57. But, I know that doesn't work all the time and it never works for some people. What else have you tried and had good success with?

adam_w · 3rd September 2002, 06:38 PM

umm..a beta 57 or a shure 545 ? or 2 57's ! How adventurous, eh ?! I have also used some rather too nice and breakable condensers when no-one was looking !

Mike Tholen · 3rd September 2002, 07:51 PM

I use a Beyer 201 instead of a 57.

e-cue · 3rd September 2002, 08:13 PM

Ditto on the 201. SM81, really brings out the snares. EM8000, very crispy (very pronouced 9K), almost too crispy for most things. If you feel like experementing, tape a PZM mic real good to the bottom head, and run for cover.

**Remoteness** · 3rd September 2002, 09:39 PM

If the SM57 doesn't do it for you try...

KM140, KM84, TLM103 for most jazz dates.

I got a wierd one for you. How about a MD431? I love the warm sound you get using that mic on snare. I like to use them on bright snare drums when I'm going for a "not so" bright snare sound. IMO, they're pretty phat sounding.

davemc · 4th September 2002, 12:18 AM

The Audio Technica snare mic ATM23e is cool, although I have not used the 201 I have herad a lot of people do.
The KM85 works cool for brushes.

unclemurray · 4th September 2002, 01:39 AM

Sennheiser MD441! I'm a drummer and nothing shines like these pups. You don't need to mic the bottom (i never do anyway). You get a perfect balance between tone and attack.

4th September 2002, 01:45 AM

Sm57
Beyer 201
Sm57 & AKG 251 (with pad cylinder taped to it)
Neumann KM84 (on side of shell, (needed HP filter!)
1000 years ago Sen 441
AKG 414

4th September 2002, 01:46 AM

A whole lota 201's goin on!

Moze · 4th September 2002, 02:09 AM

I've had good results with an SM-7, Sennheiser MD 409 and the old 57 works pretty well too.

Just recently had a bottom snare work for the first time. It was a 414.

Most of it really depends on the player and the snare. Sometimes the top works and sometimes I end up on the shell....

-Moze

DigitMus · 4th September 2002, 02:34 AM

Most of the time I get enough from the OH mics, but if I need a track for processing...
Mics I've had good luck with:
Audix OM3xb
Beyerdynamic M260
AKG C410
AKG D1000

Scott

Jay Kahrs · 4th September 2002, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Remoteness
I got a wierd one for you. How about a MD431?

Never tried that one. I don't even think I've ever come across one in a studio. That was a "vocal" mic with the on/off switch on a black handle right?

sonic dogg · 4th September 2002, 03:40 AM

back in my partnered studio daze...we had beyer m-422 and m-201 on the snare...occasionally the senn 421 would show up or the 441 but usually only when the player gave you the room to use em...nowadays i use an audix d-1 or a 57.....the 57 came from a defunct pa company years ago....i bought 10 mics from em...this particular 57 is the only one ive ever heard that sounds like this....i've personally owned a large pa system and had 25 57's at one time....this one is different.....peace

Lyle Caldwell · 4th September 2002, 05:50 AM

I used to use a 57 whenever a 201 wasn't available, after failed experiments with an Audix D1 (sounded great soloed, but never sat right in a mix). Then I did a snare mic shootout of my own, and I was surprised that, while the 201 remained my favorite, the Oktava MC012 and Shure Beta 98 were right behind it, and that for "that kind of sound" the Shure Beta 87 smoked the SM57, IMO.
So right now, I'm trying these three and seeing how they do in mixes. The Beta 98 has the best hat rejection and its bleed sounds the most natural, and I'm leaning towards it at the moment. Certainly the easiest to place in a kit. I'd highly recommend that others try it- though it's marketed for toms, it is surprisingly good on snare.

alphajerk · 4th September 2002, 05:58 AM

been my CM700 lately. was a sleeper mic in my closet for a while but has really been used a LOT of snare and electric guitars

Drumsound · 4th September 2002, 07:11 AM

I'll second the ATM23HE. I like it's body a lot more than a 57. I don't think I've used a 57 on snare drum in about three years.

I mostly used the Beyer M88 until I got the AT. I sometime use a 414b/uls.

I generally mic the shell of wood snares. Shell micing doesn't seem to sound on metal drums.

I'd like to try the 201. I love Beyer mics.

Jay Kahrs · 4th September 2002, 07:23 AM

When I'm not using a 57 I usually reach for an AKG D310 which has more of a presence peak and a tighter pattern. After that, I'll try whatever I think might work. A 414B/ULS has ended up in that spot a few times, one time I used a 421 but that almost never makes it onto snare because I like them on too many other things. It's been a while since I've used a 441 because I don't own one but I'd like to one day soon. Haven't used a 201 or the Oktava MC012's yet.

Lyle, funny that you mentioned the Beta 87 for snare. I saw a couple pictures of the band Hum in the studio recently and there was a Beta 87 on snare which is something I've never thought about trying. I'm going to see if I can borrow one soon.

**Remoteness** · 4th September 2002, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs

Never tried that one. I don't even think I've ever come across one in a studio. That was a "vocal" mic with the on/off switch on a black handle right?

Jay,

Yup, That's the one.

The first one I ever bought was from Media Sound. Picked it up from their auction way back when. It has their name in script etched into the mic body. :)

We used one of them on that WBGO Block Party broadcast in Newark, NJ you met me at. The MD431 has a magnetic reed switch that you can remove and/or reinstall with a couple of screws. :) The artist wanted a switched mic to control, so I got one of my (removed) switches from my field shop parts bin and installed it onsite during soundcheck for him.

Usually, I remove them, 'cause I don't want the artists screwing with the on/off switch. I'm a "control" freak about that kind of stuff.

Wiggy Neve Slut · 4th September 2002, 11:42 AM

I was using u87 on the top with s SM57 * km 84 taped together off too the side....

However our U87 copped a stick once and it still works a charm!

PEACE
Wiggy

subspace · 4th September 2002, 03:32 PM

For one mic, my favorite tones have come from either an SM81 on the shell or an SM98 an inch off the top skin.
For two mics, I like a 57 on top with either a 421 or a 414 in figure 8 on bottom.
I used to use a 201, but it got clobbered and I wasn't sure about the new TG-X replacement sounding the same.

Jay Kahrs · 4th September 2002, 06:06 PM

414 in figure 8 on the bottom? Doesn't that get you into trouble with the bass drum?

C.Lambrechts · 4th September 2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by subspace
For one mic, my favorite tones have come from either an SM81 on the shell or an SM98 an inch off the top skin.
For two mics, I like a 57 on top with either a 421 or a 414 in figure 8 on bottom.
I used to use a 201, but it got clobbered and I wasn't sure about the new TG-X replacement sounding the same.

why the 414 in figure 8 ??? just curious .....

subspace · 5th September 2002, 01:12 AM

It's tighter in figure 8 than in hypercardiod, and as long as you can point the rear lobe towards the throne, keeping the kick in the null, you can zero in on the exact spot you want.
I was actually trying to mic a kick from the beater side when I discovered it. It wasn't working for the kick, but the snare was sounding real good all of the sudden. A little re-positioning to attenuate the kick bleed and I stuck with it.
My 414 sounds best to me in either omni or figure-8, and the rear lobe in 8 has a darker tilt to it for mellowing out bright sources. Cardiod and hypercardioid sound a bit harsh in the midrange for most things.

5th September 2002, 01:22 AM

I have an ATM23he that I really like on the top of the snare, but it doesn't work underneath. I did give an Oktava Mk012 a try on top a few weeks ago - interesting sound; good attack, but not enough body.

Generally, I use the ATM23 on top and a 57 on the bottom; condensers on the bottom tend to be too bright on an already bright source, so the 57 seems to work nicely still for my needs.

I also gave an AT4033 a go on top, just for grins, and was pleasantly surprised by the results!

Cheers,

Don

Jay Kahrs · 5th September 2002, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by subspace
It's tighter in figure 8 than in hypercardiod, and as long as you can point the rear lobe towards the throne, keeping the kick in the null, you can zero in on the exact spot you want.

I'm still not sure how I'd position that so the kick is in the null. Mostly because it's mostly kick down there. Can you take a picture?

subspace · 5th September 2002, 04:41 PM

Sure, I can set-up a quick picture. I use a mic clamp on the snare stand if things are tight and keep the 414 close, close, close, with the -20 pad in. There's some added click from the beater, but so long as you flip polarity and don't squash the mic, it's controllable. No worse than hat bleed in the top mic, except it's easier to gate out if you don't like it.

ZEUSS · 6th September 2002, 02:13 AM

I use a 414 on the bottom of the snare all of the time. -20db pad ,cardiod, 150 roll off. Its real easy to get the mic positioned since it is small and flat. I find it adds a nice amount of body when mixed with a 57 on top. I never have any problems with it picking up kick drum or other parts of the kit. I put it about 3-4 inches from the head in the center of the drum.

Jay Kahrs · 6th September 2002, 06:05 AM

I've used a 414 for both top and bottom of snare before but never in figure 8. Actually I think I did use on the side of the shell once in figure 8 with the hi-hat in the null. That worked at the time.

subspace · 6th September 2002, 04:06 PM

I got a chance to snap a pic. It's kind of hard to tell in the photo but the 414 is under the half of the snare furthest from the kick drum.

Jay Kahrs · 7th September 2002, 04:57 AM

Ah. I get it now. Cool.

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3rd September 2002, 09:39 PM	#5
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,880	If the SM57 doesn't do it for you try... KM140, KM84, TLM103 for most jazz dates. I got a wierd one for you. How about a MD431? I love the warm sound you get using that mic on snare. I like to use them on bright snare drums when I'm going for a "not so" bright snare sound. IMO, they're pretty phat sounding. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

4th September 2002, 12:18 AM	#6
davemc Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Melb, Australia Posts: 1,029	The Audio Technica snare mic ATM23e is cool, although I have not used the 201 I have herad a lot of people do. The KM85 works cool for brushes. __________________ Bye Ya Dave INDENT

4th September 2002, 03:40 AM	#13
sonic dogg Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: pacific northwest Posts: 481	back in my partnered studio daze...we had beyer m-422 and m-201 on the snare...occasionally the senn 421 would show up or the 441 but usually only when the player gave you the room to use em...nowadays i use an audix d-1 or a 57.....the 57 came from a defunct pa company years ago....i bought 10 mics from em...this particular 57 is the only one ive ever heard that sounds like this....i've personally owned a large pa system and had 25 57's at one time....this one is different.....peace __________________ the clubhouse studio....home of drool'n dogg rekords

4th September 2002, 07:11 AM	#16
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	I'll second the ATM23HE. I like it's body a lot more than a 57. I don't think I've used a 57 on snare drum in about three years. I mostly used the Beyer M88 until I got the AT. I sometime use a 414b/uls. I generally mic the shell of wood snares. Shell micing doesn't seem to sound on metal drums. I'd like to try the 201. I love Beyer mics. __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

3rd September 2002, 06:38 PM	#2
adam_w Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: England Posts: 249	umm..a beta 57 or a shure 545 ? or 2 57's ! How adventurous, eh ?! I have also used some rather too nice and breakable condensers when no-one was looking !

3rd September 2002, 07:51 PM	#3
Mike Tholen Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 823	I use a Beyer 201 instead of a 57.

3rd September 2002, 08:13 PM	#4
e-cue Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 3,882	Ditto on the 201. SM81, really brings out the snares. EM8000, very crispy (very pronouced 9K), almost too crispy for most things. If you feel like experementing, tape a PZM mic real good to the bottom head, and run for cover.

4th September 2002, 01:39 AM	#7
unclemurray Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 27	Sennheiser MD441! I'm a drummer and nothing shines like these pups. You don't need to mic the bottom (i never do anyway). You get a perfect balance between tone and attack.

4th September 2002, 01:45 AM	#8
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	Sm57 Beyer 201 Sm57 & AKG 251 (with pad cylinder taped to it) Neumann KM84 (on side of shell, (needed HP filter!) 1000 years ago Sen 441 AKG 414

4th September 2002, 01:46 AM	#9
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	A whole lota 201's goin on!

4th September 2002, 02:09 AM	#10
Moze Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 83	I've had good results with an SM-7, Sennheiser MD 409 and the old 57 works pretty well too. Just recently had a bottom snare work for the first time. It was a 414. Most of it really depends on the player and the snare. Sometimes the top works and sometimes I end up on the shell.... -Moze

4th September 2002, 02:34 AM	#11
DigitMus Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SouthWest Florida Posts: 504	Most of the time I get enough from the OH mics, but if I need a track for processing... Mics I've had good luck with: Audix OM3xb Beyerdynamic M260 AKG C410 AKG D1000 Scott

4th September 2002, 05:50 AM	#14
Lyle Caldwell Gear Head Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 65	I used to use a 57 whenever a 201 wasn't available, after failed experiments with an Audix D1 (sounded great soloed, but never sat right in a mix). Then I did a snare mic shootout of my own, and I was surprised that, while the 201 remained my favorite, the Oktava MC012 and Shure Beta 98 were right behind it, and that for "that kind of sound" the Shure Beta 87 smoked the SM57, IMO. So right now, I'm trying these three and seeing how they do in mixes. The Beta 98 has the best hat rejection and its bleed sounds the most natural, and I'm leaning towards it at the moment. Certainly the easiest to place in a kit. I'd highly recommend that others try it- though it's marketed for toms, it is surprisingly good on snare.

4th September 2002, 05:58 AM	#15
alphajerk There is only one Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,291	been my CM700 lately. was a sleeper mic in my closet for a while but has really been used a LOT of snare and electric guitars

4th September 2002, 11:42 AM	#19
Wiggy Neve Slut Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,839	I was using u87 on the top with s SM57 * km 84 taped together off too the side.... However our U87 copped a stick once and it still works a charm! PEACE Wiggy

4th September 2002, 03:32 PM	#20
subspace Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Too sun Posts: 556	For one mic, my favorite tones have come from either an SM81 on the shell or an SM98 an inch off the top skin. For two mics, I like a 57 on top with either a 421 or a 414 in figure 8 on bottom. I used to use a 201, but it got clobbered and I wasn't sure about the new TG-X replacement sounding the same. __________________ "If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."

5th September 2002, 01:12 AM	#23
subspace Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Too sun Posts: 556	It's tighter in figure 8 than in hypercardiod, and as long as you can point the rear lobe towards the throne, keeping the kick in the null, you can zero in on the exact spot you want. I was actually trying to mic a kick from the beater side when I discovered it. It wasn't working for the kick, but the snare was sounding real good all of the sudden. A little re-positioning to attenuate the kick bleed and I stuck with it. My 414 sounds best to me in either omni or figure-8, and the rear lobe in 8 has a darker tilt to it for mellowing out bright sources. Cardiod and hypercardioid sound a bit harsh in the midrange for most things. __________________ "If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."

5th September 2002, 01:22 AM	#24
bleen Guest Posts: n/a	I have an ATM23he that I really like on the top of the snare, but it doesn't work underneath. I did give an Oktava Mk012 a try on top a few weeks ago - interesting sound; good attack, but not enough body. Generally, I use the ATM23 on top and a 57 on the bottom; condensers on the bottom tend to be too bright on an already bright source, so the 57 seems to work nicely still for my needs. I also gave an AT4033 a go on top, just for grins, and was pleasantly surprised by the results! Cheers, Don

5th September 2002, 04:41 PM	#26
subspace Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Too sun Posts: 556	Sure, I can set-up a quick picture. I use a mic clamp on the snare stand if things are tight and keep the 414 close, close, close, with the -20 pad in. There's some added click from the beater, but so long as you flip polarity and don't squash the mic, it's controllable. No worse than hat bleed in the top mic, except it's easier to gate out if you don't like it. __________________ "If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."

6th September 2002, 02:13 AM	#27
ZEUSS Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 352	I use a 414 on the bottom of the snare all of the time. -20db pad ,cardiod, 150 roll off. Its real easy to get the mic positioned since it is small and flat. I find it adds a nice amount of body when mixed with a 57 on top. I never have any problems with it picking up kick drum or other parts of the kit. I put it about 3-4 inches from the head in the center of the drum.

6th September 2002, 04:06 PM	#29
subspace Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Too sun Posts: 556	I got a chance to snap a pic. It's kind of hard to tell in the photo but the 414 is under the half of the snare furthest from the kick drum. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "If you never did, you should. These things are fun and fun is good."