Hall rate for mic install

[willi1203]

Hi
What are usual rates for mic install in big halls ? My city hall's rate are 1400 dollars a day for me to be authorized to come in and install my mics....

Is it a standard ?

[Rolo 46]

What ?
For a rig ?
How much to record ?

[rumleymusic]

The halls around here do not charge for me to come in, but there does have to be a union audio rep on staff at the time of the recording. That is billed at the standard hourly rate.

[Rolo 46]

Union rep ??
MU ?

[willi1203]

ok thanks for the answer sir.

[IceWood Studios]

I'm surprised that doesn't break some anti-competition law

[Bibster]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

The halls around here do not charge for me to come in, but there does have to be a union audio rep on staff at the time of the recording. That is billed at the standard hourly rate.

Gosh, that reminds me of my touring days... Some gigs had marked in big, bold letters 'union house'. Guess why...

Other horror stories include sound eng. changing batteries in a transmitter being fined, as batteries are electric, so I had to be an electrician.

Now, back on topic

[Thomas W. Bethe]

IBEW and IATSE union people can be hard to work with at times (most stage people belong to one of these unions). Most times if you are doing audio in a union hall you have to pay for an "assistant" who will "assist you" (maybe) and gets paid union wages since you are taking "his job" that he normally would get paid to do. Depending on the city and the union these rates can be reasonable or astronomical. The "help" you get can be GREAT, as it is in most cases, or you can get someone who is use to doing props and he or she knows nothing about audio or the vocabulary or the technology.

The person assigned to help you may be very easy to work with and always eager to help or they may disappear at the start of the concert/performance and not reappear until the end. It all depends on the Union and the person you are working with. Most times, in union halls, I get really good people to help me and they are always around when you need them like in the middle of the opera when one of the pit mics stops working and they can get into the pit and figure out what went wrong. A few times I have gotten the lower end of the spectrum of available people and I have to tell them six times to do something or they forget to do it. I had one person leave after we got setup and never reappeared. One of the other stage people had to help me strike and move out my equipment.

The best thing to do is to keep your cool and not get upset or you may find that the next time you come to the hall you are not well treated.

I think $1400 to hang a microphone is a bit much unless they had to hire a rigger to do it.

Best of luck!

[johnsound]

OP appears to be in Switzerland, rather than the US or UK, so different rules will apply.
However, we have no way of knowing what the fee does actually cover. More detail required for a sensible answer. Do you get a crew? Access equipment? Liability insurance? It's possible that you're looking at a minimum union crew call for one day, regardless of how long or how complex the actual install is. If it's just for something simple that's going to take you an hour or two, I'd try to negotiate.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by willi1203

Hi
What are usual rates for mic install in big halls ? My city hall's rate are 1400 dollars a day for me to be authorized to come in and install my mics....

Is it a standard ?

Normally, in the UK, there is no charge.

BUT - if they cannot hire the hall out for a day because you need the time to set-up the mics., I only think it is reasonable to charge you as they would lose money.

What are you recording?

Your clients should have sorted this all out when they hired the building. If they didn't then they should sort it, rather than you.

[willi1203]

Hi

I'll be recording a university choir / orchestra concert.

The fee includes for me the possibility to come in the hall. Nobody will help me or care of what i'll be doing.

[johnsound]

And to make the recording? Or is that extra? I'm still not clear: this is a one-off fee just for you to rig? The client is also paying for the use of hall for the recording? Or is this fee to cover the cost of using the hall for the recording and for you to rig?

If they have a daily rate for hiring the hall and your presence will prevent someone else from hiring, then I guess you're paying the daily rate for hiring the hall regardless of what you're doing. If it's part of a package, than I would try and negotiate a lower rate.

[Jim Williams]

That's damm good money for hanging some mics. Most rooms don't get that for a day.

Maybe we all need to work for the government? Looks like they are floating in borrowed cash.

For a while at least...

[jude]

Man that sounds like a pain in the rear end. especially the not being able to change your own batteries thing. im quite curious, if these union "assistants" arnt assisting, can you then fire them?

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

IBEW and IATSE union people can be hard to work with at times (most stage people belong to one of these unions). Most times if you are doing audio in a union hall you have to pay for an "assistant" who will "assist you" (maybe) and gets paid union wages since you are taking "his job" that he normally would get paid to do. Depending on the city and the union these rates can be reasonable or astronomical. The "help" you get can be GREAT, as it is in most cases, or you can get someone who is use to doing props and he or she knows nothing about audio or the vocabulary or the technology.

The person assigned to help you may be very easy to work with and always eager to help or they may disappear at the start of the concert/performance and not reappear until the end. It all depends on the Union and the person you are working with. Most times, in union halls, I get really good people to help me and they are always around when you need them like in the middle of the opera when one of the pit mics stops working and they can get into the pit and figure out what went wrong. A few times I have gotten the lower end of the spectrum of available people and I have to tell them six times to do something or they forget to do it. I had one person leave after we got setup and never reappeared. One of the other stage people had to help me strike and move out my equipment.

The best thing to do is to keep your cool and not get upset or you may find that the next time you come to the hall you are not well treated.

I think $1400 to hang a microphone is a bit much unless they had to hire a rigger to do it.

Best of luck!

[willi1203]

I too find it a bit much, as long as I charge 600 for recording (14 channels) and mixing....

[pkautzsch]

Well, $600 isn't exactly what one should charge for recording and mixing classical. However, $1,400 for you just to install a few mics seems a bit much.
What is this fee for?
Is it for being allowed to record one concert (ie. to make use of the hall's acoustics)? --> let client pay
Is it for the extra time you need to install the mics and therefore the hall is blocked?
--> install mics during your client's rehearsal, or just don't fly them.
Is it insurance in case a mic falls down and hurts somebody?
--> don't fly them

I would never like to use a hall's installed mics. I don't know anything about where they place the cabling or how much dust is on the diaphragms.

[klaukholm]

Setting up mics while the rehersal is going on is not an option with a professional ensemble.
Of course the hall charges for time, one option is to set up in the night or the morning of the rehersal.
I have had to set up for a session starting at 23.00 for the next mornings session.
What I would likely do in your place is start setup at 6am for a 10 am recording. This should be fine with two or more professional engineers if the controlroom is either a mobile truck, permanent controlroom or if you have the temporary controlroom built ahead of time.
It is often cheaper to hire extra hands than rent a hall for an extra day.
Here we pay $6000 per day for the nearest large hall down to about $2500 per day for chamber music halls

If this is a 2-4 mic session as a lot of archive sessions are, you set up 2 hrs before the dress rehersal, and make sure you are done 60 minutes before downbeat.

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by willi1203

Hi
What are usual rates for mic install in big halls ? My city hall's rate are 1400 dollars a day for me to be authorized to come in and install my mics....

Is it a standard ?

What city are you in? That's on the high side.


Union rates in the US vary according to each states work rules..Right to Work states are non union and don't require union techs on jobs. However for companies like mine that operate in 30 of the 50 states we always try to use union labor.

That said in union work state cities like New York City, Chicago and Philidelphia A1 rates are generally $85 hr + payroll and benefits if you have a contract - and about $125 hr if you don't.

In Right to work state cities like San Francisco & San Diego A1 rates are about $55 hr + payroll and Benefits. Los Angeles A1 rates are about $65 hr + payroll and Benefits.

At will states like Florida and Georgia are all over the map rate wise.Orlando is geneally around $45 hr while Miami is $40 or lower. Atlanta is low on the pay pole too..about $38hr.

Still $1400 is steep if all you doing is hanging mics.

[Plush]

Negotiate the fee.
The client pays for it for sure. You don't pay anything, but perhaps advance the fee to the hall yourself. Then charge more for making it easy for the client.

YOur fee just went up.

In CH, 600 is low for what you are doing.

thankyasomuch,

best from Chicago--home of the hits

Plush

[klaukholm]

$600 is pricedumping

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Plush

Negotiate the fee.
The client pays for it for sure. You don't pay anything, but perhaps advance the fee to the hall yourself. Then charge more for making it easy for the client.

Your fee just went up.

In CH, 600 is low for what you are doing.

thankyasomuch,

best from Chicago--home of the hits

Plush

Originally Posted by klaukholm

$600 is pricedumping

Assuming 600 is in Swiss Francs.

That , to me, would be a reasonable daily rate - IE: one day or part of a day.

If the work takes you into a second day, then you should charge another 600.

But even 600 a day is not high if you are competent and have a lot invested in equipment.

[willi1203]

ok thanks... not really aware how much is charged around here... choir boss jumped up (& shouted) when I told her the hall fee...

on one hand, they want a lot of spots (winds, tipani, harp, horns, choir), on the other hand don't let me enough time to hang them.... I'll manage.

Ok thanks all for the replies !

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by willi1203

ok thanks... not really aware how much is charged around here... choir boss jumped up (& shouted) when I told her the hall fee...

on one hand, they want a lot of spots (winds, tipani, harp, horns, choir), on the other hand don't let me enough time to hang them.... I'll manage.

Ok thanks all for the replies !

Give her a choice - she gets the mics she wants if she pays the hall fee - otherwise all you can do is to use a simple stereo pair.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Setting up mics while the rehersal is going on is not an option with a professional ensemble.

I should have quoted:

Originally Posted by willi1203

I'll be recording a university choir / orchestra concert.

Originally Posted by willi1203

I too find it a bit much, as long as I charge 600 for recording (14 channels) and mixing....

Originally Posted by willi1203

on one hand, they want a lot of spots (winds, tipani, harp, horns, choir), on the other hand don't let me enough time to hang them.... I'll manage.

This seems to be a low-budget job with (good) amateur ensembles. If they don't want to pay for the extra time, they will have to cope with either some setup work during their booked hall time, or with a very simple setup without lots of spots.

600, including gear, will pay one day: set up, record, wrap. Mixing should be another 600 if it's one day, maybe plus 2 hrs of export and burning a CD. In Switzerland, this would probably still be considered low. It's about what we charge for similar jobs without flying mics in Germany. Flying always means a few extra hours of setup.

[klaukholm]

Around here, 500-600 euros is a pretty common price for one engineer and a long day.
Cost for the rig should come on top of that unless it is a small suitcase size setup.

FYI, Andy Bradley of Sugar Hills studio records the Rice Orchestra which may well be the best university orchestra in the US. He uses about 6 mics for the job and the recordings sound very very good.