Let's talk jazz - Monk/Miles/Coltrane/Green

[AmekGuy]

Originally Posted by ajfarber

It used to be that if you sang well or played an instrument well you might be able to get a record deal. Now all you have to do is get shot a bunch of times.

Pretty much everyone today is a songwriter, musician, recording engineer, mastering engineer, producer, publisher and record label (all in one!). It seems the artists with actual talent have a hard time landing any deal, only because the industry is inundated with product from those who wear a multitude of hats, but who do nothing well.

[2leod]

Lately I've been listening alot to Tomasz Stanko's "Suspended Night"...

[Pohaku]

I just moved this post from another thread because it semed more appropriate here and because I've had a bit more time to work with the recordings that are the subject of the post.

I recently became associated with/helped put together a small foundation that is the recipient of about 50 years worth of live jazz recordings from Twin Cities venues. The gentleman who made the recordings recently died and left all of his “collection” and equipment to the foundation. We are literally talking about thousands and thousands of recordings dating from the 1950s to the present. He would do location recordings at bars, clubs, houses, you name it. Anybody who regularly played jazz in the Twin Cities over this period is probably represented, as well as national players traveling through. Some recordings are just private gigs at players' houses or practice studios when players would get together.

It’s interesting to see the progression in technology from two track reel to reel, to Sony Beta HiFi and VHS HiFi, to 2 track DAT, to 8 track DAT. There may be some cassette recording in there too, but those may also only be reproductions for distribution. We are still sorting it out. At the end, it looks like he was using two AKG C414-BULS and four AKG C460b mics run through a Mackie 1604 VLZ Pro to a Tascam DA-38. Remixed through the Mackie to a 2 track DAT “master” and then burned to CD.

They sound remarkably good – but then he had a lot of practice. Putting this all back together and organizing it will be a labor of love, just so people can access it and hear it. I suspect there will be some mixing or remixing opportunities here as well. It is not a commercial venture (the intellectual property aspects of this make me shudder), but an opportunity to chronicle, preserve and make available the “history” of the jazz scene in the Twin Cities.

I've just started listening to some of this in earnest and the range of styles is impressive. I'm admittedly not that knowledgeable about jazz so this will be an educational experience. Nonetheless, his recordings provide a remarkable chronicle of the changes in "what is jazz" as played in real clubs and other venues (as opposed to released recordings) over a 50 year period. Some music academic (not me) has the makings of terrific dissertation/book here.

[pan60]

how much was about the recording and how much was about the musicians and the music.
listen to something less then hi fi and it still moves.
jazz of about any kind just put's me in a pleasant mood, something few other things do anymore.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by pan60

how much was about the recording and how much was about the musicians and the music.
listen to something less then hi fi and it still moves.
jazz of about any kind just put's me in a pleasant mood, something few other things do anymore.

Of course it's all about the music. Some of the greatest recordings in jazz are old 78s (reissued on vinyl or CD) or transcriptions (air-checks) done on wire recorders. Sometimes the fidelity sucks ass, as in the wire recordings, and sometimes it's surprisingly good, as in old "Bluebird" 78s of the Ellington band.

I can listen to "Bird" no matter how bad the recording quality was, or "Pops" or Duke or anything on that level.

The 1950s an 60s brought an era of great music meets Hi-Fi, and those recordings, to me, are unequalled in both fidelity and performance.

So, It's NOT about the recording, it IS about the music. But great music recorded well is the best of both worlds. I'm sure we all agree that a great recording of jive-ass non swinging motherf#ckers, is not worth much, although those CDs can be used as coasters with great success.

[pan60]

sorry for helping derail this thread guys.
how about some of your favorite albums.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by pan60

sorry for helping derail this thread guys.
how about some of your favorite albums.

Oliver Nelson-"The Blues and the Abstract Truth"
Donald Byrd-"Blackjack"
Jackie McLean-"Jackie's Bag" & "Capuchin Swing"
Thelonious Monk-"Brilliant Corners"
Cannonball Adderley-"Live @ the Vangard" "Live in San Fran"
Duke Ellington-"Such Sweet Thunder" "The Great Paris Concert" "Far East Suite" "Uptown" etc...
Gene Ammons/Sonny Stitt "Boss Tenors"

....and hundreds of others.

[JazzYoda]

Hard to say, because the list changes over time, but I have a few "go-to" records that I return to..

Standard Coltrane (w/ Garland, Chambers, Taylor and Donald Byrd on a few cuts)

Miles "Nefertiti" (mostly Wayne Shorter tunes)

Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Dizzy Gillespie "Sonny Side Up"

J.J. Johnson "Blue Trombone" and "In Person"

[JazzYoda]

btw..who is the "Green" in this thread title? Grant Green? Bennie Green? Urbie Green? Green Chimneys?

[Vari-Mu]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

They used to say Bop wasn't jazz. Ornette wasn't jazz. I'm certainly not equating Yellow Jackets with any of those. But I consider them jazz. Depends what period you're talking though. Later with Bob Mintzer for sure. Earlier with Robben Ford, no.

Looking at the list of things that people who should have known better have ruled out of bounds over the years, maybe the following is neccessary ( ... though not sufficient) to any definition of the music; if the conservatives in the jazz community don't think that it's not jazz....then it's not jazz!!!

Historically the conservative view is a losing ticket IMO. Such positions have revealed themselves to have been absurd time and time again.

Best

Vari-Mu

[AmekGuy]

Originally Posted by pan60

sorry for helping derail this thread guys.
how about some of your favorite albums.

Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard
Joe Pass - Virtuosa
Charlie Byrd - The Bossa Nova Years

[henryrobinett]

Man that's hard. Off the top of my head . . .

Miles Davis - Nefertiti
Charles Mingus - Blues and Roots/Ah Um/Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus
Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Sonny Rollins - Vol 1 & 2
Clifford Brown - Study in Brown
Charlie Parker (anything)
John Coltrane - Cresent
Monk and Coltrane at Carnegie Hall
Bud Powell - The Amazing Bud Powell
Weather Report - I Sing The Body Electric
Bill Evans - Live at Montreax II
Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life
Keith Jarrett - Tribute
Elvin Jones - Live at the Lighthouse
Dexter Gordon - A Day I Copenhagen/Generation
Yusef Lateef - Psychicemotus
Phineas Newborn Jr - A World Of Piano
Oscar Peterson - The Sound Of The Trio

Stop me now! Too many. Yeah what Green is that in the title?? I wondered too.

[Dzoing]

Originally Posted by pan60

sorry for helping derail this thread guys.
how about some of your favorite albums.

Pretty sure the Green is the Grant one!

Ok 1% of my top list: (no order, as they come to my mind)

Thelonious Monk-"Brilliant Corners"
Duke Ellington-"Money Jungle"
Thelonious Monk-"Plays Ellington"
Oscar Peterson-"We get Request"
Grant Green-"Matador"
Oliver Nelson-"The Blues and the Abstract Truth"
John Coltrane-"Giant Steps"
John Coltrane-"Live at Village Vanguard"
Bill Evans, Scott Lafaro, Paul Motian: every LP
Horace Silver-"Capeverdean Blues"
Sonny Rollins-"Saxophone Colossus"
Bud Powell-"At Home (Confidential)"
Dexter Gordon w/ Bud Powell & Kenny Clarke-"Our Man in Paris"
Bud Powell, Thelonious Monk: Blue Note BLP 5000s
Herbie Hankock-"Maiden Voyage"
Ok let's give some cool Miles-"Someday My Prince Will Come", "Kind of Blue"...

And so much more! Have to stop now.

[pan60]

how about some of the more modern swing bands!
which have which don't?

[docformat]

Some other stuff not mentioned:

John Coltrane - A love supreme
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
- In a Silent Way
Mingus - Pithecanthropus Erectus
Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to come
Sun-ra - Space is the place
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder
McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy
Milt Jackson - Olinga
Charlie Parker-The complete town hall concert
Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Wayne Shorter - Speak no evil
Jimmy Smith - Back at the Chicken Shack
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue

All classics of one sort or another..... plenty more to come

[pianoman]

Great thread. I wish I were on GS when this discussion was happening and can't resist chiming in my $0.02 after the fact .

I saw in a liner note that jazz is now considered the new American classical music. I thought that was an interesting perspective, particularly in light of the comparisions in this thread of how well American jazz musicians are known locally compared with much less recent classical composers in Europe.

For those who don't know, in the Great White North there are musicians, perhaps little known outside of Canada, who are at the top of their game -- e.g. Oliver Jones (piano), Mike Murley (sax) or even Jeff Healey (amazing blues guitarist, blind, who has also formed a jazz band, playing trombone).

Up in Ottawa we don't have many good sources of jazz on the radio (I suppose there's the CBC hour or so near midnight, which has to do), although on the Carleton University radio station (CKCU-FM), the new DJ from 2-6am on Tues morning (that's Monday night -->Tues morning) plays nothing but progressive rock and jazz.

Just a couple of "go to" albums not yet mentioned -- a bit off the beaten track, perhaps:
Oliver Jones & Skip Bey, Then and Now
Gene Harris Quartet, Black and Blue

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by pianoman

Great thread. I wish I were on GS when this discussion was happening and can't resist chiming in my $0.02 after the fact .

I saw in a liner note that jazz is now considered the new American classical music. I thought that was an interesting perspective, particularly in light of the comparisions in this thread of how well American jazz musicians are known locally compared with much less recent classical composers in Europe.

For those who don't know, in the Great White North there are musicians, perhaps little known outside of Canada, who are at the top of their game -- e.g. Oliver Jones (piano), Mike Murley (sax) or even Jeff Healey (amazing blues guitarist, blind, who has also formed a jazz band, playing trombone).

Up in Ottawa we don't have many good sources of jazz on the radio (I suppose there's the CBC hour or so near midnight, which has to do), although on the Carleton University radio station (CKCU-FM), the new DJ from 2-6am on Tues morning (that's Monday night -->Tues morning) plays nothing but progressive rock and jazz.

Just a couple of "go to" albums not yet mentioned -- a bit off the beaten track, perhaps:
Oliver Jones & Skip Bey, Then and Now
Gene Harris Quartet, Black and Blue

Mike Murley is a monster tenorman. Other Swinging Canadians would include Brad Turner (trumpet/piano) Andre White (piano/drums) Grant Stewart (tenor) Kelly Jefferson (tenor) Brian O'Kane (trumpet) Ted Warren (drums) Ron Pailey (piano) Brad Shigeta (trombone) Mark McCarron (guitar) Peter Leitch (guitar) Will Bonnis (piano) Terry Deane (tenor) and many others including Oscar Peterson.

I think it can be said that jazz belongs to NORTH America. Sure, it started in the US south, but it reached Canada aboot 5 minutes after arrivied in Detroit.