Presonus Studiolive 24.4.2 + HD24xr. Second backup?

[recordinghopkins]

Rather than hijacking another thread....


If I am running a laptop off of the StudioLive firewire output and an HD24xr off of the direct output dsubs, can I justify the expense of another HD24 as a second backup? If the studiolive's power goes out, both backups die anyway. Tell me I'm crazy, and that the only benefit to having a third recorder with this setup is if I have outboard preamps and another mic split feeding it.

UPS is assumed.

I'm reconfiguring my mobile kit, and I already have the mults coming from a dsub input panel, made to allow input from either 24 rack preamps (TRS) or 24 console sends (DB25) without re patching.

The rack preamps are gone with the arrival of the 24.4.2, and I'm faced with the decision of cutting out the mult or installing another recorder. I suppose I could install a point to point 24 channel TRS patchbay on the rear of the rack, should I ever want a parallel connection to the direct outs for some reason, or if I need 1/4" TRS inputs to the HD24.

With this type of rig, can you think of any reason to keep parallel preamp outputs / HD24 inputs available on 1/4" TRS? I don't want to regret clipping them later.

[audibell]

G
Digital is wonderful as long as it works; extended warranty is our friend and trade-up even better. I would leave your parallel outputs in place and keep the cables in the truck to lighten your load, you'll know well in advance when you'll need them. In the future, you'll be able to afford some APIs or whatever and send those signals to whatever new recording device then exists.

The first thing I thought of is that if the Studio One power supply overheats and locks-up whatever motherboard drives this remarkable thing, your db25/FW400 are post trims and the feed to the PC & HD24 goes silent (see pp15).

I take my inputs into pres with dual outputs, either designed in (trs & db25) or retro-fitted (parallel xlrf millennia) If we all lose power, the UPS permits orderly file closing and the show resumes or not. The primary goes to the HD24 and the secondary goes to PCI interfaces - if the pc, card or cable hiccups, there's no effect on the pathway to the HD24.

If you are using the DOuts, there might still be an electron path for the mic/line inputs to pass out the DOuts inside the patch-panel on the back of the Stu1 - but I haven't confirmed this yet.

I'm using the 24:4:2 to do foh/monitors at night and mix tracks by day. I'm still recovering from the shock of how useful this beast is at the price. I'm not planning to replace my recording rig with this, yet.

Here's my idiot card for reverb setups that I find useful in my notebook.

STUDIO ONE 24:4:2 Reverb Procedure
Example Ch 6 to AUX-3

NOTE: to assign ch inputs to monitors:
> AUX3 CONTROL box (or any other AUX): Tap MIX once (FatChanl rotaries are now aux SENDS) Wind up each input channel rotary for desired send to AUX3 monitor wedge eg: ch-6 VOX

1> MSTR window FX button; choose FxA Page 1 (PGDN to FxB)
Use rotary/buttons & cycle thru presets, Bright Plate/Large Hall. RECALL to select.

2> FxA CONTROL box: Tap MIX once (FatChanl rotaries are now AUX SENDS) Wind up each input channel rotary for desired send to FxA eg: ch-6 VOX

3> FxA – SELECT – ASSIGN row; select MAIN or GOTO 4

4> De-select MAIN, select SUB-1 (or SUB 2, 3 or 4)

5> SUB1 – SELECT – ASSIGN – MAIN (SUB1 fader now controls reverb level in MAINS but not monitors on AUXes 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9&10)

6> AUX3 – Tap MIX twice – Use rotary 5 (FxA) or 6 (FxB) to set Fx output level to AUX3 Repeat for other AUXes.

7> Adjust Fx depth to AUXes with the FxA/B CONTROL rotaries; use SUB1 fader for MAIN (to assign ch-6 VOX dry to mains, Ch-6 – SELECT – ASSIGN row; select MAIN)

rgds
WalterT

[recordinghopkins]

Thanks for the verb tip Walter!
I pulled up a session last night, and found it useful to use subs 1/2 linked for effect returns and was pleased that it's possible to use 3/4 as a parallel compression mix bus.

Let's see if I've got this straight.
You are running outboard preamps and split the +4dbu outputs to the SL24 and HD24 for a completely independent backup, if I understand you correctly.

The HD24 and SL24 are on UPS, but the outboard preamps aren't.

In my new rig, I am taking a calculated risk that the SL24 won't die during a gig, and the HD24 is merely a safety net for DAW crashes. This is why I felt that a second HD24 multed from the SL24's direct outs may not be the best investment at this time.

I do have 4 spaces open in my rack which could be filled with upgraded preamps at a later date. The db25 panel to dual 24 TRS could be used in reverse to mult the line outs of the preamps, with dsub to TRS breakout cables for the SL24's line inputs to give a truly redundant configuration. If I go this route, I'll want quality preamps.

I have made some really great recordings with the tubefires, and for certain types of music their color really works well. But they are ridiculously heavy and the whole point of getting the SL24 was to lighten the load and shrink the rolling rack from 16 spaces to 10.
The old configuration was Tubefire preamps>HD24xr>digi out>presonus lightpipe>FW 400>MBP. So I was depending on the HD24's reliability. Now, I'm depending on the SL24's reliability until I can get it truly redundant with 24 lightweight outboard preamps, if I take your advice.

So then...
What 24 channels of preamps can I have in the interim for about $1k that will be lighter weight and subjectively better fidelity than the ART tubefires? I've already got an M-audio 2626 in the rack for when it's in the studio. It could be used in this configuration and simply add 16 more channels of something. I normally use it to capture the console 2mix or 8 busses and convert to lightpipe. It's conneted to the last 8 channels of the 32 channel Presonus Firestudio lightpipe. The first 24 are connected to the HD24 for daw i/o. I won't be using the SL24 anywhere but in the field.

[recordinghopkins]

This looks really tempting for 24 channels of front end preamps:

Black Lion Audio | Behringer ADA 8000

The basic (analog only) mod is only $255, and the preamps can be had for under $200. So for ~$900 I could add 16 of these to the Profire 2626 and run completely redundant backup.

Edit:
I just bought three @ $175 each. I'll send one off for the premium mod, and see how it performs compared to the original before modding the other two. That would make for a great shootout thread as well!
I can easily ditch all three on Nashville Craigslist for even money if I don't like them.

I'll use them as stand alone preamps, and use the mult to deliver their outputs to the HD24 and Dsub panel. 3 DB25 to TRS cables will provide line inputs to the SL24, and the mic snake will connect at the front of the rack - something I previously needed XLR patch panels to do. The optical connections on the HD24 are normalled to the presonus lightpipe for home DAW/Console duties, which connects via dsub.
I will likely continue to use the Profire 2626 to capture the console's mix and subgroup busses via the presonus lightpipe, but I will audition the BLA ADA8 for those duties.

[recordinghopkins]

This looks cool, and opens up a whole new world of possibilities:

Remote Gain Controller

Preamps in the split rack, db25 snake terminations, TRS 1 to HD24, TRS 2 to SL24...

[PDC]

If you guys are using the StudioLive for mixing FOH and/or FOH and monitors, and the power goes out, the band will likely stop playing. So, redundant recording is a moot point AFAIAC.

I use 24.4s to mix a small cover band, and I record onto a MacBook Pro via Capture, and have never had a problem of any sort. My thinking is that if something happens, the type of talent I have to work with will not know what to do, will likely stop and take a break, leaving me ample time to reboot everything. Therefore, I see no need to "capture" all of that onto disc.

[recordinghopkins]

Redundant recording is for the purpose of equipment failure, not so that we can continue to record after the power goes out. Uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) serve the purpose of allowing files to be saved and to safely shut down the system upon outage.

The question here is whether the studiolive will fail during a live gig, and prevent the remainder of the show from being recorded.

I just realized that the ada8000 only has xlr outputs. Darn. looks like I'm canceling my order.

[MichaelPatrick]

I think two recordings is enough because it it will significantly diminish the risk of media and computer failures. Keeping a third recorder working properly along with the other two will not reduce the remaining risk enough to justify the effort.

More gear means there will be more to distract you and that is enough to cause some unforced errors, especially under pressure.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I think two recordings is enough because it it will significantly diminish the risk of media and computer failures. Keeping a third recorder working properly along with the other two will not reduce the remaining risk enough to justify the effort.

More gear means there will be more to distract you and that is enough to cause some unforced errors, especially under pressure.

That's what I was hoping to hear in the first place! I just wanted confirmation from other industry professionals that I'm not taking too big of a risk here. Some of what I record is not just a simple bar gig, but senior and graduate student recitals. I can handle the infrequent refund or re-booking of a bar gig, but to tell the client that their once in a lifetime concert was not recorded would damage my business. My angst over relying on the SL24 to be reliable comes from the fact that I haven't field tested it yet.

Would you care to speculate on the need to run redundant preamps? Obviously the greatest risk of failure is drive errors or user error. I don't have any reason to believe that the studiolive would not give me years of reliable service, but I sure would sleep better at night knowing that no single piece of gear can bring down the whole rig. On the other hand, the failure of a bank of outboard mic preamps, even if only 8 of them, could be just as catastrophic as complete failure of the studiolive. They would undoubtedly need to be run with the mic inputs split to the studiolive as well. This answers my question about the custom harness and whether I should clip out the TRS mult. I wouldn't need it either way if I wanted true 100% redundancy.



Thanks for the reminder to simplify. A simple rig is always the most reliable.

You guys rock.

[audibell]

To anyone who is starting out with the Studio Live 24:4:2, it soon becomes apparent that the images in the printed manual are superior to the ones in the pdf file on the disc. The book lives with the mixer but I frequently refer to the pdf when studying how-tos. Googling studiolive pics produces an array of color pics, all of whose resolutions (at Dec 2011) are too thin to show the lettering on the buttons or around the jacks - they break up as you zoom in. Eventually you learn them but at the beginning this is a nuisance, so I offer here a few pics which might assist the learning curve.
Good luck,
WalterT

[MichaelPatrick]

WalterT, how are you liking it? How's it sound?

[recordinghopkins]

Thanks Walter!

Have a look at how my kit revisions are shaping up in this thread:
Where do you put your laptop?