Mics advice...

[hbphotoav]

So... I have a possible chamber music recording job next week at a venue that is an open atrium. The stage is set in an odd-shaped room, with lots of glass ("venue with a view", it seems) behind. I'll likely get to walk the room tomorrow, but for now, the photo is all I have to go on.

I'm leaning toward a Blumlein with ribbons as the main pair (with a ORTF pair of 8040s as a "safety") with omni outriggers. Perhaps, spot the piano... Am I nuts?

Other than speculating on the last bit, any advice?

TIA.

HB

[rumleymusic]

If it is that small of a stage, do you really think you need the outriggers? Maybe use your omnis as instrument spots in case you need it.

Other than that, I can't imagine any problem with blumlein or ORTF.

[Earcatcher]

A dangerous place for Blumlein, with the audience that close and the odd-shaped room. I have learned that Blumlein is only right when it is exactly right. So, carefully check in advance with a test recording.

[hughesmr]

Totally agree with earcatcher... crossed 8s may be really risky.

I record occasionally in a similar large atrium at the conservatory at Univ of Cincinnati (with audience) ... not glass, but lots of large, hard smooth curved surfaces. Have run 8040s in NOS with great results... so that's what I'd suggest as a start.

[hbphotoav]

From the atrium of the Hunter Museum in Chattanooga, TN. Reference the photo in the initial post... the piano was more stage center; the solo violinist was in the curve, close to the instrument; the cellist centered, on a 6" platform, out in front. On the cello/violin duo, the cellist was on the platform (centered) and the violinist was to house left, beside.

The "320 Polonaise" snip is a mix of Sennheiser 8040s in NOS 8' up, 8' out, blended with DPA 4061s (-6dB) on the same stand in a 22" AB, and a pair of TLM193s (-11dB) spotting the piano looking into the end, 12" AB, 2' back, 3' up.

The remaining clips are the DPAs only, with a touch of Logic "A Verb". The room was not kind.

Comments and criticisms are welcomed. Things got dodgy around start time (trying to figure out how to reset the HD24 backup's inputs to "Analog" from "Digital"... just needed to create a new Song... DOH!) so there weren't any photos.

HB

[Earcatcher]

Good definition, but very dry and actually a bit too close to my taste, even with the touch of reverb. I happen to have a Bricasti M7 and this is the kind of recording where I would put it to good use...

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by Earcatcher

Good definition, but very dry and actually a bit too close to my taste, even with the touch of reverb. I happen to have a Bricasti M7 and this is the kind of recording where I would put it to good use...

Thanks. You feel my pain... The room was packed with chairs... re: the photo... it was all I could do to get from 5' out to 8' out. They moved four chairs for me and I grabbed the space. The next available open space was on the first balcony.

[rumleymusic]

From this distance, I think the omnis work better. Though it would be worth a shot to change the balance of Sennheiser to DPA in favor of the DPA. I have used the exact same mics in a similar setup many times and the 8040's usually end up being a subtle enhancing pair rather than the dominant pair.

[king2070lplaya]

I'd probably go with a spaced pair of figure 8's. Vary the distance til it sounds right. That way you avoid some of the odd side reflections but still get the long verb from the back.

[sonare]

At that distance Blumlein will yield "hyper-stereo." Note the glass is curved-- so there are parabolic reflections to consider.

They surely must have asked an acoustician to devise the worst possible placement for a chamber group with piano.

Harry-- was the piano full-stick or short?

Rich

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by sonare

At that distance Blumlein will yield "hyper-stereo." Note the glass is curved-- so there are parabolic reflections to consider.

They surely must have asked an acoustician to devise the worst possible placement for a chamber group with piano.

Harry-- was the piano full-stick or short?

Rich

So much pain... so little time. Nothing of a real soundcheck (except for a student assistant noodling on the piano once the mics were up) didn't help matters at all. I set basic levels by playing Lang Lang on the iPod through the JBL EON out for the pre-concert chat at a level close to what I expected to hear in the room. The piano was on full stick.

As to the spaced 8's... you had to be there... but there was just no "long verb" reflection to capture... The back "wall" was asymmetrical to the rest of the room's walls, was interrupted by a 2-story staircase (solid... not open framed) and the hallway behind the staircase fed (looking back-to-front) a hallway to the right leading to another gallery. Non-glass walls were covered in a soft rubber-tile-like substance and the room was packed with people. If there's a "next time" (I just sent the final mix off to the event director) I might put up a couple of ribbons... as well as the DPAs... and maybe a pair out in the room (maybe hung off the balcony) to try for something reflected.

[Don S]

With just a glance at your pic, I would go wide cardioid (MK21). The 8040 is just going to bring out all the reflections. The blumlein would be my second, since you're going to get as much sound away from the glass as in front. Let us know how it went!

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by Don S

With just a glance at your pic, I would go wide cardioid (MK21). The 8040 is just going to bring out all the reflections. The blumlein would be my second, since you're going to get as much sound away from the glass as in front. Let us know how it went!

Ummm... sorry... it went to the client today... samples are 7 posts up (titled "Results"...).

[boojum]

Harry, FWIW, I like the NOS +AB. It gave a bit more depth and definition than just the AB alone. I am fond of both methods, but I go with ORTF rather than NOS, when using a combo. Maybe I should change. Anyway, you pulled a rabbit out of the hat.