hard indian guitar: sitar

Pilepoile · 25th April 2006

Hello,

Do you know what is the best mic for sitar in live situation?
the sound is very weak so it's very diffult!!!
room mic? or dynamic mic? ribbon mic?

thanks!

xj32 · 25th April 2006

I have done a few sitar sessions (as I am a big Indian music fan)...anyway I found that I got my best results with pencil condensers like sm-81's and KM-84s.

Unlike guitars sitars put out a very wide soundfield all at once due to the drone of the sympathetic strings.

I used two mics and placed 1 about 6 - 18" from the body/bridge and used the other one to mic the resonant guorde on the top. I will look and see if I have pics of the sessions somewhere.

Paul

Pilepoile · 25th April 2006

so I would like to try with two 414 tl2 or two oktava mk012, or maybe one tlm 193!
thanks for your answer, if you have some picturs!!!

Baithak · 25th April 2006

Hi Pilepoint,

I only record classical Indian instruments and as the other poster said, they produce a wide sound field which is significantly affected by the room as well. Secondly they have a rather big harmonic which approximately coincides with the proximity effect of most cardiod mics so you end up with mud.

A well placed ribbon (I use Royers) in a good sounding room is a good choice

An omni placed even closer in a perfect room is the best choice (I use DPA/Schoeps) especially if there is no sound reenforcement.

If the room is not that great or you don't have too much time for setup, the best option is a Schoeps CMC6 with MK41 capsule about 3 feet away and foot and a half off the floor pointing downwards between the hand and the end of the gourd (NOT towards the strings). If you move the mic around a bit you will be able to get a very different set of tones, depending on what you are looking for, all the way from pure tizz (not recommended) to rounded, mellow honey (what I look for). Any closer than about 2 and a half feet and the proximity effect will significantly alter the sound.

I use Millenia preamps going but on location I also use the preamps in Cranesong's spider.

Hope this helps,
Baithak

T.RayBullard · 25th April 2006

The jecklin technique works very well, as does baffled 8s.

I prefer Gefell m296s and secondary(for this application) , Schoeps MK2S. No proximity affect, and the slight HF rise suits it perfectly.

I like a bit of mojo on stringed instruments, and pendulum mdp-1 sounds fantastic.

DAV pres sound amazing too.

Pilepoile · 26th April 2006

yes I think royer 121 is good for recording but It's for live situation!!!

thanks for your answer, I will try with my oktava

**Remoteness** · 26th April 2006

I've used R121s in live situations...

You need to be careful when positioning the mic minimizing the leakage factor.
I've used them with my handmade "micro gobos" with very good results.

matyas · 28th April 2006

I used Oktava MC012's on a sitar once, and it sounded pretty good. Ribbons would be cool, too, although I didn't have access to any at the time.

wyndrock · 29th April 2006

i deeply love and appreciate middle eastern music of all genres. i find it extremely relaxing. i enjoy the instrumental music more than the stuff i can't translate. i always imagine them singing about something really beatiful.

the song from the beginning of "black hawk down", that's some nice stuff. i'd like to know who did that one. my guess it's an american composer, but they sure did a nice job emulating true middle eastern music.

ask your client if they'll let you post a little snippet of the session. i'd like to hear the outcome.

have fun! let us know how it goes!

lee

ande1718 · 21st July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndrock

i deeply love and appreciate middle eastern music of all genres. i find it extremely relaxing. i enjoy the instrumental music more than the stuff i can't translate. i always imagine them singing about something really beatiful.

the song from the beginning of "black hawk down", that's some nice stuff. i'd like to know who did that one. my guess it's an american composer, but they sure did a nice job emulating true middle eastern music.

ask your client if they'll let you post a little snippet of the session. i'd like to hear the outcome.

have fun! let us know how it goes!

lee

Probably worth noting that the Sitar is not a Middle Eastern instrument. Middle Eastern string instruments include the Oud, Buzuq, Turkish Saz, Kanoun, and they play a lot of European strings like violins etc. Sitar is from India.

I'll have to check out that Black Hawk Down song though.

audiothings · 21st July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndrock

i deeply love and appreciate middle eastern music of all genres. i find it extremely relaxing. i enjoy the instrumental music more than the stuff i can't translate. i always imagine them singing about something really beatiful.

the song from the beginning of "black hawk down", that's some nice stuff. i'd like to know who did that one. my guess it's an american composer, but they sure did a nice job emulating true middle eastern music.

ask your client if they'll let you post a little snippet of the session. i'd like to hear the outcome.

have fun! let us know how it goes!

lee

HEY! India is NOT in the middle-east!

YUGA · 21st July 2009

I think it depends on how noisy the stage is. I heard a pair of SM81's was used for Ravi Shankar's concert.

If the venue is noisy you can try a handheld condenser vocal microphone. I had good results with a Beta 87A placed as close as possible and pointed at 3-4 cm above the bridge.

The proximity effect isn't a big problem if the sitar player belongs to Imdad khani/Senia Gharana (Vilayat Khan etc.) as the Ga string is used instead of the low Sa. If the player belongs to Maihar Gharana (Ravi Shankar etc), then his sitar has the low Sa string and he probably uses a double-toomba sitar (which has more low) so the proximity effect can be a little problematic.

Make sure you bring a pre with plenty of gain.

Edit: I now realized this thread was posted more than three years ago. sorry!

audiothings · 21st July 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by YUGA

Edit: I now realized this thread was posted more than three years ago. sorry!

even I

**Remoteness** · 21st July 2009

Ah yes, it can happen.

Remember, this forum is an open book; check the dates before you post present suggestions, but at the same time keep in mind that even current information can be very helpful to others.

nobtwiddler · 23rd July 2009

Recently recorded Sitar & Tambora at my joint, used a Royer SF-12.
The results were fabulous!

25th April 2006	#1
Pilepoile Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: france Posts: 296 Thread Starter	hard indian guitar: sitar Hello, Do you know what is the best mic for sitar in live situation? the sound is very weak so it's very diffult!!! room mic? or dynamic mic? ribbon mic? thanks! __________________ Home studio

25th April 2006	#4
Baithak Gear maniac Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pune, India Posts: 263	Sitar Hi Pilepoint, I only record classical Indian instruments and as the other poster said, they produce a wide sound field which is significantly affected by the room as well. Secondly they have a rather big harmonic which approximately coincides with the proximity effect of most cardiod mics so you end up with mud. A well placed ribbon (I use Royers) in a good sounding room is a good choice An omni placed even closer in a perfect room is the best choice (I use DPA/Schoeps) especially if there is no sound reenforcement. If the room is not that great or you don't have too much time for setup, the best option is a Schoeps CMC6 with MK41 capsule about 3 feet away and foot and a half off the floor pointing downwards between the hand and the end of the gourd (NOT towards the strings). If you move the mic around a bit you will be able to get a very different set of tones, depending on what you are looking for, all the way from pure tizz (not recommended) to rounded, mellow honey (what I look for). Any closer than about 2 and a half feet and the proximity effect will significantly alter the sound. I use Millenia preamps going but on location I also use the preamps in Cranesong's spider. Hope this helps, Baithak

25th April 2006	#5
T.RayBullard Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Columbus County, North Carolina Posts: 2,431	The jecklin technique works very well, as does baffled 8s. I prefer Gefell m296s and secondary(for this application) , Schoeps MK2S. No proximity affect, and the slight HF rise suits it perfectly. I like a bit of mojo on stringed instruments, and pendulum mdp-1 sounds fantastic. DAV pres sound amazing too. __________________ I think it is wrong to make everything equidistant from the listener with too many mics. The pasting-on effects end up like bad Photoshop work on graphics & photos - too unbelievable.-Tony Faulkner http://www.last.fm/user/TeddyBullard/

26th April 2006	#7
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,311	I've used R121s in live situations... You need to be careful when positioning the mic minimizing the leakage factor. I've used them with my handmade "micro gobos" with very good results. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network What about my Facebook Profile? Remoteness on Myspace

21st July 2009	#12
YUGA Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Japan Posts: 653	I think it depends on how noisy the stage is. I heard a pair of SM81's was used for Ravi Shankar's concert. If the venue is noisy you can try a handheld condenser vocal microphone. I had good results with a Beta 87A placed as close as possible and pointed at 3-4 cm above the bridge. The proximity effect isn't a big problem if the sitar player belongs to Imdad khani/Senia Gharana (Vilayat Khan etc.) as the Ga string is used instead of the low Sa. If the player belongs to Maihar Gharana (Ravi Shankar etc), then his sitar has the low Sa string and he probably uses a double-toomba sitar (which has more low) so the proximity effect can be a little problematic. Make sure you bring a pre with plenty of gain. Edit: I now realized this thread was posted more than three years ago. sorry! __________________ http://soundcloud.com/krita-yuga

25th April 2006	#2
xj32 Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 1,201	I have done a few sitar sessions (as I am a big Indian music fan)...anyway I found that I got my best results with pencil condensers like sm-81's and KM-84s. Unlike guitars sitars put out a very wide soundfield all at once due to the drone of the sympathetic strings. I used two mics and placed 1 about 6 - 18" from the body/bridge and used the other one to mic the resonant guorde on the top. I will look and see if I have pics of the sessions somewhere. Paul

28th April 2006	#8
matyas Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 389	I used Oktava MC012's on a sitar once, and it sounded pretty good. Ribbons would be cool, too, although I didn't have access to any at the time.

29th April 2006	#9
wyndrock Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Virginia - North Carolina - California Posts: 292	i deeply love and appreciate middle eastern music of all genres. i find it extremely relaxing. i enjoy the instrumental music more than the stuff i can't translate. i always imagine them singing about something really beatiful. the song from the beginning of "black hawk down", that's some nice stuff. i'd like to know who did that one. my guess it's an american composer, but they sure did a nice job emulating true middle eastern music. ask your client if they'll let you post a little snippet of the session. i'd like to hear the outcome. have fun! let us know how it goes! lee

23rd July 2009	#15
nobtwiddler Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Millbrook, NY Posts: 2,152	Royer Stereo Ribbon Recently recorded Sitar & Tambora at my joint, used a Royer SF-12. The results were fabulous! __________________ Cheers Paul www.millbrooksoundstudios.com A coupla, two, tree, credits http://www.allmusic.com/artist/paul-...111434/credits

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Recording Bansuri (indian flute) Sunday	Chris Parsons	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	7	26th September 2011 04:50 AM
Make a guitar sound like a sitar	CDP	So much gear, so little time!	45	27th April 2010 11:12 PM
Any tips for recording/mixing a Sitar?	demel	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	8	10th January 2007 01:33 AM