Need a line-level wireless transmitter

[MichaelPatrick]

I'm wondering what the best transmitter is for line level signals in remote locations. I know there are wireless mic body packs, but what works for line level signals?

[hbphotoav]

I'm pretty sure the "usual suspects" can pad down the input level far enough (online search through a couple of manuals should prove out which ones can) but I have used my Sennheiser SKP500 plug-on with a Shure -20/-30/-50dB inline pad with no problem. I also know my former boss used to feed board output (not sure if it was +4 or -10... it was, however, XLR) through an older (200-Series?) Lectrosonics 250mw belt pack to the control trailer from the winner's circle. Of course, he did have a paddle mast...

HB

[rcrowley]

You can pad down any kind of line level signal to feed ANY wireless transmitter. That would not appear to be a factor at all. Much more important is whether your (unstated) budget will get you a system suitable for your (undisclosed) production situations.

Here is a good answer to the perpetual question: The $500 Wireless Question, or, "What cheap system should I get?"

[MichaelPatrick]

Harry and rcrowley, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. This is very helpful.

[Rolo 46]

All proper radios have
Line in
Dynamic mic in
Instrument in
Electret in
Capacitor in.
Plug in power
P48
T12.
You pay for what you get,as ever.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

All proper radios have
Line in
Dynamic mic in
Instrument in
Electret in
Capacitor in.
Plug in power
P48
T12.
You pay for what you get,as ever.

Can you give an example? Never heard of a Tx the offers T12.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Occasionally I need to send a line-level signal to FOH and running a long line isn't always possible. Does anyone know of good wireless transmission system that can take -10 or +4?

Sennheiser evolution series all have a line-in socket (ring on the 3-pole mini-jack).

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Can you give an example? Never heard of a Tx the offers T12.

I think old Microns had this as well as Audio Ltd. transmitters.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Sennheiser evolution series all have a line-in socket (ring on the 3-pole mini-jack).

What series: EW100, EW300 ?

[Rolo 46]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Can you give an example? Never heard of a Tx the offers T12.

Micron Diversity 500 and 700 older ranges
Aldo now has his own range of Radios since he parted with Tanky.

T12 is much more benign for powering MKH than P48
A MKH T will run many hours on a double PP3 TX .

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by John Willett

I think old Microns had this as well as Audio Ltd. transmitters.

Interesting. Used Audio Ltd. for more than 10years but only used the vdB P48 adapter for wireless booming that would transfer the 9V from the lemo to P48 but never heard of T12 being directly available on one of the pins of the Tx lemo...

[bari_floydian]

this is what we rent out to a lot of our clients

gets the job done

Line/Data Link Transmitters and Portable Camera Systems at Hand Held Audio

[bari_floydian]

also u can do it with shure uhfr receiver and a shure psm 900 iem transmitter

[fifthcircle]

The probablem you're going to have with sending your signal is the companders that can hit hard in a lot of the circuits when they see I high level. I find shure mic transmitters to be particularly bad with this. Really to the point where sending a line signal 500+ feet on copper will likely sound better than going wireless.

Now, of course, sometimes that isn't an issue and you kind of need to suck it up and deal... I would probably look towards the IEMs that are out there or even the IFB modules for the film world. I think it was Lectrosonic that makes one that actually sounds quite good as they've always been light on the comps and companders. Sennheiser 3000 and 5000 stuff also sounds really good, but it can be easy to clip the transmitters sometimes.

--Ben

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

What series: EW100, EW300 ?

Yes

SK 100, SK 300, SK 500, 2000, G1, G2, G3.

[Rolo 46]

Any radio with 6 or 8 pin Lemo connectors is going to be versatile
Simple 3 pole jacks not up to it
Any radio worth its while is fine with volts in

[rcrowley]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

Any radio with 6 or 8 pin Lemo connectors is going to be versatile
Simple 3 pole jacks not up to it
Any radio worth its while is fine with volts in

IMHO, better to have a more rugged/standard connector (without lots of microscopic pins out in the field), and use an external pad (50 cents worth of resistors when it comes down to it).

[huub]

I've used FM transmitters for sending a broadcast mix from a stage on a boat.. The FOH mix was also sent this way.. I think you can rent FM transmitters for this purpose everywhere?

[mixedupsteve]

I use a IEM unit for that. I purchased it to send board mix to a camera but I've also hooked up the receiver to another mixer.
Mine is just an inexpensive Galaxy unit but it works fine for what I need.

[philper]

Lots of us doco soundies hit wireless TX with the line outs signal from mixers to do camera links. I found that it paid to be conservative, and that even when using the proper wiring for line-in to a Lectro TX I still needed to take the mixer output level down a good deal. Do some listening tests to the other end of the link and see how much sqwush you can live with, and that will tell you what level input the TX can really take, regardless of what its blinking lights say.

phil p

[Rolo 46]

Originally Posted by rcrowley

IMHO, better to have a more rugged/standard connector (without lots of microscopic pins out in the field), and use an external pad (50 cents worth of resistors when it comes down to it).

They are Swiss dear boy
They lock and mate in all weathers
They do not fail in field
They have many possibilities of gain and powering.

[JEGG]

Michael:
What sort of range is required?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Michael:
What sort of range is required?

80 meters
Indoors

[hbphotoav]

Clear line-of-sight and/or at least one directional paddle on a tall boom stand and getting the xmitter up on a 2m boom should get you where you need to be. We run seven RF mics (Senn 100-series, G2 and G3, and Shure UHFR) and four IEMs (Senn G2) from 25m in a room with 800 peeps nearly every week. Everything but the IEMs are on OEM rods, at 3-5' from the floor. Steel roof/hard walls actually help, in this instance.

What are you doing that's 200+ ft from the transmitter? Big room...

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by hbphotoav

Clear line-of-sight and/or at least one directional paddle on a tall boom stand and getting the xmitter up on a 2m boom should get you where you need to be. We run seven RF mics (Senn 100-series, G2 and G3, and Shure UHFR) and four IEMs (Senn G2) from 25m in a room with 800 peeps nearly every week. Everything but the IEMs are on OEM rods, at 3-5' from the floor. Steel roof/hard walls actually help, in this instance.

What are you doing that's 200+ ft from the transmitter? Big room...

OK, I exaggerated for safety.
It's about 40 m from my location to FOH which is at the rear of the hall.

[fifthcircle]

What are you trying to accomplish with this wireless link? Can it be done wired? I regularly provide house feeds by sending to the house cable system which leads directly to FOH. At the end of the day, it is far more reliable than dealing with a wireless signal.

--Ben

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

What are you trying to accomplish with this wireless link? Can it be done wired? I regularly provide house feeds by sending to the house cable system which leads directly to FOH. At the end of the day, it is far more reliable than dealing with a wireless signal.

--Ben

In some places I can run a wire. In one historic building where I record there's no cableway and FOH is in an awkward balcony location. They use wireless for everything in there but speakers.

There are other occasions and places, too, where wireless is just simpler because, e.g., the house cable layout is not clear and setup times are very very short.

Most of the time I just need to feed one or two of my vox mics to an unmanned FOH system. I want better mic quality for recording and I want to control level in the house so it won't mess up the recording (feedback, ringing, etc.)

[hbphotoav]

Here's what I'd do... if you can not get to a rehearsal/soundcheck type event, string wire (or do what you "normally" do) and run it as a safety. Wire the RF as a primary. Record/capture them both. See if it works. Which it will, almost every time except for when you really, really need it to (Murphy was an optimistic recordist)... but you can at least do your due diligence.

Make sure you have good line-of-sight and, if you can, spring for a system with a transmitter with a 100 or 250mw signal. That moves you high-end. Shure UHF-R is, I think, the only sub-$1K system with switchable 50/100mw... (http://www.fullcompass.com/product/3...FQ9Y7AodB1z8lA). We use the Sennheiser EW100G3 (30mw nominal) handhelds, which generally have better line-of-sight and are less "mission critical"... and use the two UHF-R systems (set to 100mw via the menu) for the pastor's mic and backup. Battery life is shortened (6-8 hours from the Sennheisers; 3-5 hours from the UHF-Rs) but we haven't had a RF signal drop in that room since we bumped up the power. The Lectrosonics systems with 50/100/250 mw(smv | Transmitters) would likely work best... but will also damage your checking account the most.

Worst case, when need arises, rent a Lectro system and be done with it.

[fifthcircle]

There's a hall with no lines from the FOH position to stage? That's really odd.

I usually just find a mic input somewhere and then pad it down if necessary- either at the board or on input using inline pads. Even churches and other places that have horrible systems usually have at least a couple lines that are installed.

When it comes to quality, your best bet is Lectro. Not much beats it, but it is pretty wicked expensive. You can find it used, but even that is still pricey. Same situation with the Sennheiser 3000 and 5000 stuff I recommended earlier. Quality costs- especially with wireless. And the bad stuff just isn't worth using.

-Ben

[Rolo 46]

Lectros are heavy on batteries and have high op power
A very selective and sensitive RX is better
Especially with multi radio systems where TX power must be lower.