Solar Power?

[jenkel16]

Has anyone tried powering a mobile truck with solar power? I'm working out a plan for one at the moment and am curious about the cost benefits, in addition to the obvious sonic ones.

Thanks,
Graham

[joelpatterson]

Don't know much about mobile trucks... but my studio runs on solar power. When I built the place, the power lines were a good 1/2 mile away, so I set up a solar system: PV panels on the roof, battery bank in the basement, inverters to convert the 12VDC of the solar world into 120VAC for running gear.

The batteries are hideously heavy, but then they run everything in the house, and since electronics really doesn't take that much juice, I'm sure it's feasible. You might need to drop a few thousand dollars on panels. And you need a sunny day, or a stretch of sunny days prior, if it's cloudy.

The wonderful folks at backwoodssolar.com in Idaho could help you assess your needs and the details of the power requirements. Tell Scott I sentya!

[Remoteness]

Very cool Joel,

We should all consider solar energy. Kudos to you for making the move to clean energy!

And all the best to Graham for considering this wonderful power possibility.

Solar would work well for a remote truck but, forget about using it for the air conditioning or heating. You will need to stow a lot of extra batteries -- Far more than you would normally use for this kind of system. And that's a lot of extra weight to deal with. Having a backup power source is a very good idea and will be a necessary option. The backup power system could also handle the HVAC when applicable. A week of cloudy days will bag you if you cannot storage enough juice in those energy cells.

I remember Kooster doing a gig using solar power for the audio equipment for a Green Peace event or similar organization. They originally planned to power everything but ended up powering only the audio gear. There wasn't enough solar panels and storage to do it all.

In any event, go for it -- I hope it works out well for you! Please keep us posted!

[tINY]

The problem with solar power is that you don't get much power. That's why the batteries are there. If you have a lot of panels that can deliver 800W-h per day each, you can run a recording studio for an hour or so each day.

Efficeincy is the key here. Running tube gear probably isn't the best idea. Turning off unused gear could help too.

If you are serious, it's best to skip the inverters too. Any gear that uses DC inputs should be run on DC if possible. Taking DC power - inverting it to 110VAC - then rectifing it to DC again will waste 20-60% of the power.

But, for a mobile truck - you'd probably use more fuel hauling arround the batteries and pannels than if you just ran a good generator for the power you needed.



-tINY

[joelpatterson]

Uh... batteries are there so you can work at night, too.

Also... theoretically, things are DC powered alot of the time, but you'd have a pretty little nightmare trying to convert from 12VDC into every possible DC configuration that gear is designed for. Also, my Mac G4 and all that needs 120VAC.

You will need a pure sine wave inverter... there's all kinds of details, but the beauty of it is that, when people are here, unless I tell them the place runs on solar electricity, no one would have any clue. You flip a switch, the lights go on. Voila!

[Remoteness]

Yeah, solar energy -- it’s about the storage. The more reserve the better. That’s a whole lot of batteries baby.

Considering we used to tug two or more analog (multitrack) machines around this is not too far out of reach. Figure lining the entire floor space of the body with batteries. Let’s stay roughly 8’ X 25 ‘ or so. That’s a good start and a pretty heavy (weight) layout.

Turning off unused gear or setting the “auto off” feature if available is key here.

How about 100 volt batteries? They’re a lot closer to 110 Volts. Can anyone chime in on this one?

Then a groovy “used cooking oil” powered diesel generator for the HVAC and backup power source power.

[dplitt]

About 6 years ago I was contracted to provide sound for an Earth Day event in Balboa Park, San Diego, Ca. As usual I spec'ed my power requirements for my equipment. If memory serves me right, that day I was running dual top's and dual 18" subs on each side and 4 Monitor mixes on stage, plus my FOH rig and I think I was running 6 amplifiers.

When I arrived at the event to set up I was greeted by a group of research scientist's from the U.S. Navy research lab in China Lake, California. They brought a 25 foot trailer with an experimental solar power generator and informed me that my main and only source of power that day would be solar. I went straight to the event organizer who turned out to be on of those "blank stare - their's no chance of reasoning with me - tree hugger types" (go figure!, it was Earth Day).

To make a long story short, I was amazed, I went through 4 bands that day with no problems. The mids and highs were clean and the low end even had a good punch. The Navy science guys told me that the unit had a natural gas powered generator that would automatically kick in if needed but it turned out we didn't need it that day. I must admit that I came away from that experience with a new respect for the future of solar power. I must say though that since this was a Navy project, that they probably poured millions of research dollars into it and I don't know if I would want to repeat this with something that someone built in their garage

Dan Plitt
Sound Source
San Diego, Ca.

[puls(e)]

I've been out of the PV loop for a while, but if my memory is correct, most renewable energy gear is set-up to provide 12volts or 24V, or occasionally 48V. This was due to the most commonly used battery & DC voltages. You may be able to find something at 96V if you check around. And don't forget, the battery's can be charged by any electrical source (plug 'em in) including the motor's alternator, if there's not enough sun. Make sure the batteries are charged up before you head out to location, & don't let them sit at low charge for an extended period of time (especially in cold weather). And you will need a backup electrical supply for when the sun's not out & the batteries get low.

Hope this helps

jwp

[Remoteness]

What an excellent thread on solar power.

Any positive push towards this type of energy source is awesome.

You folks got me thinking... Now, I too want a solar powered truck...

Let's build a few online!


Large true sine wave UPSs run on 100v batteries.... Time to Google a few words and phrases.

[tINY]

I think Wind power is probably a better idea.

Or maybe we could wire up all the excercise bikes to alternators and store that energy.

Tha possiblities are endless.




-tINY

[Berolzheimer]

I don't have any specifics but there have been some major advances in PV and battery tech in the last couple of years, big improvments in PV out put, battery capacity & reductions in weight- just think of how much better cell phone batteries are than they were a couple years ago.

[jenkel16]

I'm thinking the Front Range of the Rockies has enough sunny days to make this work. I agree charging on off days is a must.

Dan, do you know what capacity the Navy's trailer was running at?

[Berolzheimer]

I'd think the elevation will be helpful too; I've heard the sun is 4% stronger for every 1000 feet of elevation gain.

[dplitt]

Originally Posted by jenkel16

I'm thinking the Front Range of the Rockies has enough sunny days to make this work. I agree charging on off days is a must.

Dan, do you know what capacity the Navy's trailer was running at?

No, to be honest it was the first and only time I worked with these guys so I don't know much about the technology that they brought with them. I can say that the whole bottom of the trailer was lined with batteries and I would guess the trailer measured 25' x 4'. They ran me a breakout box with at least 4 separate circuits (this was six years ago,so i am going from memory).

The amps that I generally use are Electro Voice Precision series (3 P1250's, 2 P2000's and 1 P3000) and while they are probably the cleanest sounding amps i have had in my inventory (they blow away my Crest Audio's) the bottom line is that the EV amps are power hogs and they go into protect mode if you drop below 100v or around 13amps. So given that info I would have to say that I was pleasantly surprised when I encountered no problems with the Navy solar system.

One last thing, I recently retired from the US Navy myself (10 years active, 12 years reserve) and I know that most navy bases have their own websites so this may be a long shot but try the Navy's website at www.navy.mil and look for a link to the China Lake Naval station (China Lake California) and see if their site may have some info on the Solar Power Development program. Who knows you, might luck out.

Dan Plitt
Sound Source
San Diego, Ca.

[jenkel16]

Cool Cool,
Thanks for the info.

Those with trucks, how many circuits are you using to power your equipment and how big are the generators you currently have?

Graham

[Remoteness]

We have 200 amp service on two of my trucks.
The smallest truck has a 100 amp service.
You needs may be different...

Do the math -- Add up the wattage of all the equipment in use then add at least 25% over what you come up with. Now you have a reasonable number to start with.

Don't forget to add your HVAC needs into the equation. IMO, don't run your heat and air on the solar system.

[ClickTrackAudio]

Originally Posted by jenkel16

Cool Cool,
Thanks for the info.

Those with trucks, how many circuits are you using to power your equipment and how big are the generators you currently have?

Graham

Very interesting thread...

We require two circuits, each capable of 30A service. One is for tech power, the second is utility power (i.e. HVAC, battery charger, lighting, etc). We run with either a generator or house power. The genny is a 7.5kW that can supply both circuits.

I never really thought about solar power, as it was yet one more thing to worry about when onsite...but my thoughts do come from the days when things were big and heavy....good on ya for taking a look at how far technology has come and what is now possible.

Cheers

[celticrogues]

Originally Posted by tINY

I think Wind power is probably a better idea.

Thats kind of interesting - a couple of turbines on top of the truck that turn and generate electricity through the natural wind created by driving down the road. Not a main source of power probably, but a way to fill up some more backup batteries for cloudy days. I suppose you would need quite an architect to fit turbines and solar panels on top of the truck at the same time, but it is an idea.

Great thread!

-Mike

[Berolzheimer]

Originally Posted by celticrogues

Thats kind of interesting - a couple of turbines on top of the truck that turn and generate electricity through the natural wind created by driving down the road. Not a main source of power probably, but a way to fill up some more backup batteries for cloudy days. I suppose you would need quite an architect to fit turbines and solar panels on top of the truck at the same time, but it is an idea.

Great thread!

-Mike

You'll pay for this through increased gas usage due to the extra drag.

[Jim vanBergen]

Back in the days when I operated a remote truck, I has hired to do a recording for Kronos Quartet on a set of 'musical instruments' that were basically musical art pieces, located on the artists' commune in western PA.

The instruments are VERY cool- there is a big restored barn with long, thin rods you play as a giant dulcimer, as well as several sets of huge set of chime-like tubes. In the back of the barn is a 15' diameter gong, --suspended by three telephone poles-- that is simply amazing, and strangely enough the artist who built this all is buried underneath the gong.

The shore power I found out, when I went to go search as to WHY I only measured 88 volts, was SOLAR.

We opened up the doors to the truck and ran preamps, multitracks, console, small powered monitors and master record deck only, with daylight and a couple of littlelites, leaving the HVAC and truck lighting off, and as little AC as possible.

It was middle of summer, so the sun was HOT and it was uncomfortable in the truck without HVAC, but Kronos' producer/engineer, my A2 and I survived.

The gear worked...for soundcheck, lunch, and six straight hours of recording, dinner break, and three more hours of jamming & recording.

Kronos had planned to take the tracks back to LA and dub their string quartet over the location tracks, but they never released anything from this session.

It was still an excellent gig and learning experience!

I think it would be very cool to put solar panels on a truck, but the HVAC is tough- you'd end up with a LOT of weight if you intend to keep climate control running.

Jim

[matthewvandenham]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Don't know much about mobile trucks... but my studio runs on solar power. When I built the place, the power lines were a good 1/2 mile away, so I set up a solar system: PV panels on the roof, battery bank in the basement, inverters to convert the 12VDC of the solar world into 120VAC for running gear.

The batteries are hideously heavy, but then they run everything in the house, and since electronics really doesn't take that much juice, I'm sure it's feasible. You might need to drop a few thousand dollars on panels. And you need a sunny day, or a stretch of sunny days prior, if it's cloudy.

The wonderful folks at backwoodssolar.com in Idaho could help you assess your needs and the details of the power requirements. Tell Scott I sentya!

that's super cool! I was just about to create a thread about solar energy for use in a home studio, not necessarily for environmental reasons, but to simply clean up the signals and reduce general noise from electrical interference. What happens when you get a stretch of cloudy days, do you have a back up generator or back up electrical source? thanks

[t_chance]

I worked with this a few times (1A). My employer is hooked up with them somehow, and we have had a Honda EU2000 generator for backup.

Rent the Solar Power Trailer - Minnesota Renewable Energy Society (MRES) - Connecting Minnesotans with Renewable Energy Resources

[joelpatterson]

I loved my first Honda generator... I've got some kind of Subaru/Homelite one now, an 1800 watt model, if I'm remembering correctly? I picked it up at Home Depot without hardly looking at it.

A generator is pretty necessary in winter-time, shorter days and cloudier weather as a rule-- the rest of the year, the thing takes care of itself.

I've just been poking around a stream I have in the woods, getting a sense of how much flow, and what the drop is. I mean... solar is very cool, sure, but hydropower... that would be stylin'!...

[t_chance]

That EU series puts out that nice "true sine wave" power that all this electronic gear needs.
What we need is that biodiesel generator. Hydro better yet

[matthewvandenham]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I loved my first Honda generator... I've got some kind of Subaru/Homelite one now, an 1800 watt model, if I'm remembering correctly? I picked it up at Home Depot without hardly looking at it.

A generator is pretty necessary in winter-time, shorter days and cloudier weather as a rule-- the rest of the year, the thing takes care of itself.

I've just been poking around a stream I have in the woods, getting a sense of how much flow, and what the drop is. I mean... solar is very cool, sure, but hydropower... that would be stylin'!...

so if you lived near a stream with a constant current then you could effectively have power all the time, except during winter months (assuming you live in an area with seasons)(?) What do you think about windpower? I'm thinking of designing a studio that runs on solar, wind and possibly hydro to power everything. free energy and less interference, so your recordings should be cleaner..war?

[bcgood]

I love this idea. Eventually I will build an entirely off the grid studio. I think it's a great idea to utilize both solar and wind technologies. Over time they pay for themselves and then it's free energy. It's nice not to have to pay a bill every month and it's good for the environment. Plus like others have mentioned you get very clean power and not to mention some good karma points, or whatever.

[Remoteness]

...And, if you generate more power than you are using you can sell it back to your energy delivery company.

[The MPCist]

So... would running AC in the house off solar power be out of the question.....? When will this be possible...? Any guesses?

[Remoteness]

I would say running HVAC off of a Solar powered system is next to impossible unless you have a boat load (hundreds of) batteries for an insane amount of storage.

Running the equipment is totally doable especially if you're running a totally digital system without any motors and such.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I would say running HVAC off of a Solar powered system is next to impossible unless you have a boat load (hundreds of) batteries for an insane amount of storage.

Running the equipment is totally doable especially if you're running a totally digital system without any motors and such.

Yeah, that's what I know... I wonder if in a few years, we could have some super panels that could.. LOL but I really don't see how that's possible.