Upright: Foam-wrapped SM57 under the bridge (pic?)

[AjD]

Hey all,

Does anyone have a picture of the "foam-wrapped SM57 under the upright bass bridge" trick they could post?

I'm getting ready to track some live all-in-one-room band stuff - with an upright bass, 4-piece jump blues drummer, etc. Been itchin' to try out the "foamed-57-under-the-bass-bridge" thing, but I've never seen it done up close.

Best,
Adam
drawingroom.org

(Great forum, btw. I've been coming to GS for a longtime, and never thought to check this board out until recently. I don't do on-location stage stuff, but I do *lots* of live-in-one-room studio stuff. Seems like there's lots of crossover. )

[Remoteness]

Cool,

Hey, consider posting on the Remote Forum Role Call thread...

Also, why not try the old rubber band / mic in the bridge trick.
In that scenario, the mic is totally suspended from the bass.
We have been using that concept rather than the foam & mic rig.
We found that many upright bassists didn't dig the foam (or towel) touching their instrument.
We started using the rubber bands because of that situation.


Here are a few links to threads that discuss the rubber band technique...

Recording Upright Acoustic Bass - Help Please

Recording Upright Bass

Recording acoustic bass

Shotgun mic for upright bass

Recording upright Bass

Upright bass, still a PITA

"Hey, that's not enough information on Upright; Slap; Double; Acoustic Bass...
Got anymore threads I can read?"

[AjD]

Super cool response. I really appreciate the bit of time it must have taken you to pull up those links.

I'm starting to get how this is done, particularly your clever rubber band method. Your picture attached below seems to help me best.

Couple questions about that pic:

1) Does this technique use two rubber bands (or hair bands - the feminine kind, not Van Halen )?

2) Are you making little "loops" with the rubber bands? This is so hard to put into words, but I'll try to explain:

Do you - a) put the the rubber band around the mic barrel from the top - and keep it there while you, b) stretch one end of the same rubber band all the way around one side of the bridge, and finally you c) attach this stretched rubber band end around the mic barrel, this time from the bottom so the rubber band becomes tight and is supporting the mic barrel from two contact points?

And then, I assume, you repeat this, using the other rubber band... except the second rubber band is set-up in a sort-of mirror image of the first rubber band (this time on the other side of the bridge)? And thus the equal and opposite tensions of the two rubber bands keeps the mic steady and pointing upright?

Wow, that is hard to explain with words. But is that it?

Adam

[Mats H]

Works with an omni mic too. A "foam wrapped" B&K 4007 with two scotch brite sponges and the only tape I had around at that session. I got a good sound, but the recording wouldn´t have suffered from a little more isolation from the saxophone.

[Remoteness]

Yeah, the search feature we got is very cool.

The rubber band technique in the picture utilizes two rubber bands.
We loop one rubber band around each side of the bridge so you would have two rubber bands hanging off the bridge pointing inwards. Then we grab each looped band and wrap it around the mic barrel. Depending on the size of the band will determine how many times you’ll need to loop around the mic. Choosing the right sized rubber bands ahead of time is recommended.

And yes, equal and opposite tensions of the two rubber bands keep the mic steady and pointing upright? Well, in theory that is. You will need to play with it a bit. The mic cable plays a role too. Use medium duty bands to help handle the steadiness.

[Jan Folkson]

I've been using this on acoustic bass for some time now with great results...no tape, no rubber bands

Audio Technica ATM35

[Remoteness]

Jan,

What does that mic sound like?

And what's the price point?

Thanks!

[AjD]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Jan, I'm also curious about that ATM35. How's the isolation in loudish live scenarios (is it cardioid)?

Adam

[Jan Folkson]

It's a fairly natural sounding mic on acoustic bass (which is the only thing I've ever tried it on). It's a cardiod condensor and rejection is good. It's got a HP filter on it which helps with movement noise and rumble. I clip it right to the bridge and go!

I've used it on several live jazz recordings with great results. Oh, and it's about $300 or so, I think.

Here's a link:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...c98/index.html

[klaukholm]

edit:
Faulty observation

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

What does that mic sound like?

And what's the price point?

Thanks!

Those are great mics for the money....They are in the ballpark soundwise with the AT 4051. They also make a 'Pro 35' which isn't as 'pro' sounding IMO as the ATM35 but it looks the same, so don't be fooled.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...c98/index.html

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Thats a 4006 you've got there, which is a better choice BTW. make sure to use the close grid.

kjetil

No, it´s a B&K 4007. The angle and lens fools the eye a bit, making the capsule look larger than it is. It is a 4007.

[wyndrock]

im liking the clip on mic. can you post a file of that recording, and solo that track? a very very short wav file? ill bake you a cake.

[klaukholm]

oops you are right of course - it looks almost straight from that angle, but I should have seen it from the grid. . Just sold two of our 4004's yesterday - how do you like that versus the 06/03 for this application?

[Jan Folkson]

Originally Posted by wyndrock

im liking the clip on mic. can you post a file of that recording, and solo that track? a very very short wav file? ill bake you a cake.

Although I do love cake

I believe that all that stuff has been turned into the respective labels at this point.

[AjD]

Yeah, that clip-on solution is sexy - at least on paper. Easy, quick, inobtrusive. If it gets a usable natural sound *and* has nice isolation, I'd buy one on the spot.

Anyone else using the ATM35 on upright in a live setting?

Adam

P.S. I've got an old Electrovoice C090 clip-on lavalier condenser that I picked up for nada at the local Kiwanis rummage sale. I planned on trying it on upright, but it's unfortunately broken (very low, spitty signal - even with a new battery). Maybe I'll investigate getting it repaired now...

[Don S]

Try the 57 wrapped in a wascloth in the tailpiece. Unless it's flat of course!

[valleysound]

I use an ATM35 with a classical pop band I work for. The cellist turned me on to the mic. She clamps it to her bridge and then during sound check we move it around until it I like the sound. I picked onr up on eBaay with the pwer supply for $100 in mint condition 2 months ago. I am happy with it. I'd like to try it out on a horn at some point.

[leddy]

I have not used the AT mic, but I do use this:

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/beta98h.asp

I think the street price was around $225. I am a bass player, and I think it sounds great. My only issue is the same as most - isolation. You can put a mic like that right near the bass, but the proximity effect on such a bass-heavy instrument to begin with is annoying to say the least. If you EQ out the proximity effect, you damage the sound, especially the off-axis stuff.

I have experimented with other mics right near the bass (similar to the pics above with the rubber bands) using an Earthworks TC20. Sounded great, but it acted as another room mic. I love the Beyer M88, but it has huge proximity effect (see the last sentence in the previous paragraph). It would be my go-to mic if I have reasonable isolation. I just bought an RE20, I am going to be experimenting with that soon.

I've been dedicating a lot of time to finding a solution to the PITA factor of recording upright bass in a live band setting. My conclusions so far have me leaning toward finding mics with little proximity effect and usable off-axis sound so I can use the bleed, more so than using the clip-on cardiod mics like the Beta 98 or the AT and trying to get isolation.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by leddy

...I've been dedicating a lot of time to finding a solution to the PITA factor of recording upright bass in a live band setting. My conclusions so far have me leaning toward finding mics with little proximity effect and usable off-axis sound so I can use the bleed, more so than using the clip-on cardiod mics like the Beta 98 or the AT and trying to get isolation.

I feel you.

A little "virtual gobo" never hurts!

[doghouseNYC]

I've had good results by miking the bass and sending the signal into a good monitor (with good low end) and allowing the bass to fend for itself in the room like everybody else does. It's a more natural sound than using a pickup or an amp, but if you think about it, most players these days use an amp.

I detailed this in a case study here: http://doghouseNYC.com/work/bass.php.

Hope this helps. -Nathan

[classicalrecord]

just thought i'd add that i tried using the mic suspended with rubber bands between the bridge method of micing the bass tonight in small jazz combo setting it worked really well... nice sound, decent isolation (thankfully no drums, otherwise it could have been ugly). I used a sennheiser md211, which is a dynamic omni-- great cause there's no proximity effect and it has pretty nice sound as well. the concert was just piano, bass and guitar so i was able to keep everyone's sound pretty well isolated. further details if you care (otherwise ignore the rest of the post and continue back to the topic): had a beyer m130 on the guitar amp and a pair of josephson c42's on the piano. there was a singer for a couple songs, singing through a 58 into a little amp for live sound reinforcement so i threw up a mic right next to the 58 since she wasn't gonna be moving around (for once). just used an old ev re-10 which i think sounds better than a 58 for this kind of thing and isn't obnoxious of intimidating looking. got some good sounds out of it i think and no bleed from the amp. anyway... just thought i'd share the tangent-- questions or otherwise, let me know.

nick

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Jan Folkson

It's a fairly natural sounding mic on acoustic bass (which is the only thing I've ever tried it on). It's a cardiod condensor and rejection is good. It's got a HP filter on it which helps with movement noise and rumble. I clip it right to the bridge and go![/url]

reading the specs, the HP filter rolls off at 150hz,
in your recordings, you don't find this stealing too much of the low end on the upright tracks?

[rmx16]

I've had decent results with a Stapes omni with the bridge rubberband thing.

Rob