Going from mobile tracking to recording live gigs...questions!

[redbull]

Hopefully this isn't too broad a question.

I've been running a mobile studio of sorts, recording mostly in church halls, rehearsal spaces etc. Mostly indie/rock bands. I get a lot of enquiries about recording live gigs, as this is what people seem to first think of when they hear "mobile recording".

I've worked in a fairly professional studio for over 4 years before this, but I have to admit I have a huge lack of knowledge when it comes to live sound, and in particular live desks. Because of this, I've avoided that particular avenue, but I think now it is time to start considering it.

So...how do I go about recording a band at a gig in a venue that already provides the sound engineer/equipment?

Do I just simply take a feed from his desk, and am at the complete mercy of his miking technique and mic locker?

Is having a recording engineer shadowing you not a complete pain for a live engineer? Have you guys who have done this found much resistance from them?

Also, what aditional equipment would I need to do this? Right now I simply run my mics straight into pres (Neve 1073, API 3124, Focusrite Octo) into an SSL Alphalink, into a Mac Pro/PT.

Thanks guys.

[RobAnderson]

Four magic words:

Transformer Isolated Mic Splitter.

You never want to be at the mercy of the live sound guy. And you never want to be in his/her hair. They have enough to worry about without having to deal with you.

As for mic choice, negotiate with the live sound co. well in advance of the gig; just remember that what works well in a studio situation may not be the best choice in a live situation. Don't be a jerk about it - if the live sound guy refuses to change it out and you can't live without it, then double mic it.

Don't forget audience mic's.

Have a backup plan - there is no second take.

Otherwise, show up, take your split (fight for the direct side), set levels on your fancy pre's, set the recorders rolling, and learn to pray.

[redbull]

Thanks Rob, exactly what I was looking for (and very inspirational site/portfolio by the way).

The more I think about it the more I reckon a foundation live sound course might be worthwhile, I feel quite ignorant to how things work live as opposed to in studio.

Any recommendations on mic splitters? Radial, LA Audio and Art would be the most readily available to me.

I know this differs from gig to gig, but is there ever opposition to adding another path in the signal from the live guy? Is this a common obstacle?

Would it be common to pay the live guy for causing him the extra hassle?

[RobAnderson]

You don't have to pay the Live Sound guy anything extra (but showing up with some donuts and/or coffee can smooth the way sometimes).

Some of them do kick a fuss about the splitter, but it's usually the inexperienced ones and it's pretty rare unless you give the impression that you don't know what you are doing. Make sure you bring a snake to tie into their stage box. Mic's go directly to the splitter - you supply them with tails to do the cross patch to their box.

Unless they already have a recording split. Some of the larger venues and sound companies are already set up for this, in which case they hand you XLR tails and you are good to go.

Just remember - whoever takes direct supplies the phantom. If it's you, get up and happening quickly so that you will not cause any issues if they want to check a line.

The real key is communication before the fact. If you have already worked out what you plan to do with the house sound folks well in advance of the gig, there are no nasty surprises for anybody involved, and if there are some surprises you will already have some rapport, and a (hopefully good) working relationship, with the people on the gig. Everybody wins, and the show and recording are better because of it.

Not sure what your budget is. Radial makes great stuff, but I shied away from them because of the screw terminal connectors. ProCo and Whirlwind make decent 4-channel single RU splitters in the $250 range. If you have the dough for Jensen or Lundahl transformers, go for it.

The ART 8-bangers look great for the price, but the performance spec's on those tranny's are a little scary. As the recording eng. I'd hate to end up on the iso side.

As our esteemed moderator Remoteness says (me paraphrasing - sorry if I misquote you Steve!): get good transformers. You never know when you might actually have to use them.

Also, (and I'd love to ask this in GeekSlutz forum) since the tranny is in parallel to your own hard-wired direct feed, I suspect that any bad inductive reactance and saturation problems caused by the nasty tranny would be duplicated on both sides of the split.

[philper]

All good info, ESPECIALLY the bit about communicating in a diplomatic way ahead of time. No one likes surprises at a live performance, and most FOH guys are really overworked already. I am respectful and ask advice on what's worked out well for recording in that venue in the past, and try to scout the venue and meet the engineer some days before the gig. Little things like parking, a table etc to set up on, AC power etc can take up a lot of time if they aren't already worked out. Research the gear they have so you can talk intelligently about it. We all have our fave methods, but being flexible is important too...

phil p

[redbull]

Excellent, thanks a lot for your time guys, that helps massively.

[JNS]

Hi. I strongly agree with Rob Anderson's comments. Speaking of splitters, I recently purchased 8-ch. and 24-ch. splitters from Whirlwind. In doing my research before purchasing I talked to the main guy handling the splitters and he indicated that the new Whirlwind transformers with Faraday shielding (I think they started using them about 3 yrs. ago or so) speced out almost the same as Jensens except for about a 1/2 db. less signal.

Just my .02 worth.

Jeff

[Remoteness]

There's some good information in this thread!

[philper]

On several occasions I was able to "sell" using a splitter to a reluctant FOH guy by offering to rent the splitter from him (so it was his gear, ie "known").

phil p

[hbphotoav]

Originally Posted by philper

On several occasions I was able to "sell" using a splitter to a reluctant FOH guy by offering to rent the splitter from him (so it was his gear, ie "known").

phil p

Going by the venue a couple of days ahead is a great plan. I've owned a passive split for a couple of years, and I always let the FOH people know that I'll be there early (in the case of one "regular" gig, a day prior, so he can wire it in ahead of time, at his leisure) and that ANY problem on a channel will result in my disconnection, and finding another solution. So far, so good. Owning and maintaining the split has been essential. A cable tester is your friend. If you rent from anyone other than the venue, take the time before you arrive to check each line for continuity and ground issues. Renting an "unknown" iso split, rather than a passive, would seem prudent, as well as remembering it's "his" (or "her") house.