Microphone: Live Stage Trumpet.

[Abundrefo]

Hi,

I am a trumpet player and I need to buy my first microphone for live performance.

I play a Monette Bb trumpet. I play in a small-group jazz, but also play Soul music.

I am doing some research and found out some good clues, but some are very expensive for me, and some are not available where I live (Brazil).

Basically, I have to choose between Shure and Sennheiser.
So, I found out that these microphones below are not so expensive and could do the job:

- Shure Beta 56
- Sennheiser e609 (we don't have the Silver yet).
- Sennheiser e604

But, I could afford any of these and I cannot decide which one.

I heard the e609 Silver is a very good one, but since we do not have the Silver yet, will the (old) e609 do the job?

If you have any other suggestion, consider Shure and Seenheiser until US$ 150

Could you guys help me with that?

Thanks!

[Remoteness]

IMO, if economics is a real issue consider (I'm not kidding) an SM58...

You'll have a decent mic and it can also double as a hammer if you need one.

Yep, I'm serious -- I've used SM58s on 'pets and I've also seen them on band technical riders.

The E906 would be better than the E609 or E609 SILVER.

[Abundrefo]

Based on several posts of several forums, I have decided to choose either the Beta 56 or the e609.
...or else I'll go crazy!

I have to do it this week.
Anyone help me do it fast and painless?

http://gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/winknudge.gif

Thanks!!!

[shproductions03]

SM 58 can't go wrong with that.

[ExistanceMusic]

Can't imagine the b56 would be bad, but it is an odd choice, to say the least. I've always used SM57's and enjoyed the results, but so much comes down to the player, and trumpets are such a dynamic and varies sounding instrument, mic choice will come down to what works best for you. I'd suggest making friends with a rental company and borrowing a different mic per gig for a little while and see what works best for you.
Once you find something you like, and can get used to, bringing it to gigs will help your performance a whole heap.
Good luck!

[Abundrefo]

This choice has a point...

"Trumpet
Perhaps the perkiest sibling in the brass family, the trumpet has a wide dynamic range. It can get quite loud and biting, yet it can turn around and croon a moody tune with ease. Place the mic about six inches in front of the bell of the trumpet, and point it slightly off center. Players will often work with the distance a bit when they switch between playing open and playing with a mute.

The microphone you choose should have a good low end and not be overbright. The Shure Beta 56 is a good choice because it has a tight pattern, it can handle the sound level, and it has ample bottom end. Beyerdynamic's M 88 has a low-midrange boost that complements the trumpet's timbre. Some other very fine choices include Electro-Voice's RE20, Audix's D3, and Sennheiser's MD 409, E 609, and MD 421. Berenson recommends steering clear of Shure Beta 57s — in his experience, these mics have a certain brightness that can work against you when used on a trumpet."

from: http://onstagemag.com/ar/performance_mic_rest_band/

I have some answers to this post in other forums that second this opinion.

Many others have sustained that the e609 is the best one for the trumpet, behind MD421 and MD441.

[Remoteness]

Yeah well, I'd listen to an SM58 or SM57 before I'd buy a E609 or Beta56. It's just my opinion but the E609 is nothing like an MD409 or a MD421 or a MD441. Not even close!

Furthermore, I've never seen a Beta56 or E609 for Trumpet on any Band technical rider. I've seen SM58s, SM57s, MD421s, MD441s, MD409s, E906s, TLM170s, R121s, et cetera, etc.

Good luck... Keep us posted on your developments.

[PlugHead]

With you playing a 'spendy' instrument like a Monette, I don't think I'd skimp on buying the right mic! $150.00 is a pretty low budget if you're looking for something to represent your instrument exceptionally...

IME, I find 58's, and other 'vocal' mics to be too bright in a lot of brass applications: the best choices for live I've used are Sennheiser 441's, and EV RE-20's, but both are well above your budget.

I'd look at the Heil PR-20 @ $160.00 retail, or step up to the PR-30 - around $250.00 retail. Both can be had for 20 to 30% less through the right dealer, and are better mics than 57/58's for trumpet.

My .02 cents (tho from a fellow brass player )

[Sounds Great]

Also consider an AKG D3500 or D3600.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

With you playing a 'spendy' instrument like a Monette, I don't think I'd skimp on buying the right mic! $150.00 is a pretty low budget if you're looking for something to represent your instrument exceptionally...

IME, I find 58's, and other 'vocal' mics to be too bright in a lot of brass applications: the best choices for live I've used are Sennheiser 441's, and EV RE-20's, but both are well above your budget.

I'd look at the Heil PR-20 @ $160.00 retail, or step up to the PR-30 - around $250.00 retail. Both can be had for 20 to 30% less through the right dealer, and are better mics than 57/58's for trumpet.

My .02 cents (tho from a fellow brass player )

Yeah but, you couldn't use them as a hammer.

[aussie_techie]

SM57 and 58s work fine when thats all you have
i will reach for a beta57a for trumpet when i have a choice but that choice is usualy only between sm57 sm58 or beta57a. b56 and 57 use the same cartridge so it just depends on how you want to mount it. it certainly isnt a strange choice and i would hesitate to buy one although i would likley get a b57a just for the mounting.
that said i would try out a beta98 it will most likley do you the best sound, or even some other higher end mics. assuming it does the best tell the sound guy to just give you an sm57 untill you can save up for a beta98 or other, it will be the best way to go in the long run and it shouldnt be to much more if you have a good dealer.
also keep in mind alot of enginears dont know how to eq brass unless they know your sound and even with a better mic your sound will vary if you get someone different every night.

just my experence dealing with brass live anyway.

[Jim vanBergen]

So. My opinion above, with some detail:

I like the 609, it sounds nice though it is NOT a 409 anymore, in the same way the current 421 v 2 is nowhere close to the classic 421.

It's not the same as a cardioid '58, so you should look closely at pattern.

I gotta say Steve's advice is always on the money... A Shure '58 (not the beta!) is a great option and is consistent. I also think the Beta '57 is a good choice here. Have you LISTENED to the mics? This is the place where it makes a difference, and I have used 609s on trumpets, trombones and flugelhorns (but no Bb's).

The 56 is the SAME CAPSULE as the 57 and I would consider why one over the other- if you want an integral stand mount built into the mic, then it's a good reason to consider the instrument.

When I worked with Chris Botti, he used a Helpinstill that sounded just like a Shure SM98, and needed some warmth to get where it was going...tube pre and compression did the job there.

You have to listen to the mics. They have different character, and sound different when the bell is various distances from the element.

You (or I, for that matter) could make any of these mics work, but if you're gonna buy ONE mic... better use your ears and a close facsimile of the preamp you'll be hearing with it.

Hope these thoughts help!

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Yeah but, you couldn't use them as a hammer.

Sure you could: you just can't drive nails in as far - plus they go in SMOOOOOTHER!

[Remoteness]

Now, we got something going on here!

[tINY]

I always prefered the EV 660 for driving nails (probably works better for mic'n a bright trumpet too).




-tINY

[Han]

Friends, the guy on a budget so an MD441 is out of the question, not even a good 2nd hand 441.

The M88 is a great mic but IMHO much too bright for most horns. The MD421 might work but only the MK1 (I'm talking 2nd hand mics here)

The Beyer M201 isn't a bad tpt mic as I've found out, my favorite is the MD441, but a Beyer M160/260 is even better.

But since the guy has a limited budget I guess the 609 or an SM57 will do a decent (live) job.

[Jim vanBergen]

Now, two of my Beyer M88s are VERY dark, as though they have (prob'ly) been used on kick drum, so the basket it stretched. Excellent options to a "new" or tight basket for tonal palette!! But damn, they pound ten-penny and finish nails REALLY well, they're nice and heavy and that shank does great double duty if you want to smack an assistant in the head. Which I often do! (I often want to, rarely do I actually GET to...)

[Abundrefo]

I got my Monette in the US.
…and this happened when my country’s money matched the value of US$. 1999.

I cannot go overseas anymore just to buy a mic.

So I decided I will be happy with the best thing I can find here, where I live: Sao Paulo - Brazil.

Thanks for your help!!!
Without this help I couldn't make the decision I made.

I tested some mics and ENJOYED the e609.
I'm happy with it, because this was the best I could get.
(Lot better than the Shures - from the sound I heard out of them)

Thanks again!!!

[producerb3]

I've never gotten a bad sound of a 57 or a 58 on any style for trumpet. Also if you buy a mic now and want to play a different instrument in the future or even a different type/style of trumpet then you'll know either of those will work.

[smarsland]

If you can afford to buy a Monette trumpet, you can probably save up for whatever mic you want. 20 years and still playing on my Bach Strad. lol

Someone suggested to me a Beyer M88TG but I don't own it yet. Anyone second this idea? Will definitely give a nice smoothness to the sound is what I understand.

s

Originally Posted by Abundrefo

Hi,

I am a trumpet player and I need to buy my first microphone for live performance.

I play a Monette Bb trumpet. I play in a small-group jazz, but also play Soul music.

I am doing some research and found out some good clues, but some are very expensive for me, and some are not available where I live (Brazil).

Basically, I have to choose between Shure and Sennheiser.
So, I found out that these microphones below are not so expensive and could do the job:

- Shure Beta 56
- Sennheiser e609 (we don't have the Silver yet).
- Sennheiser e604

But, I could afford any of these and I cannot decide which one.

I heard the e609 Silver is a very good one, but since we do not have the Silver yet, will the (old) e609 do the job?

If you have any other suggestion, consider Shure and Seenheiser until US$ 150

Could you guys help me with that?

Thanks!

[Remoteness]

We used M88s on all the trumpets for the WDR Big Band with Paquito D'Rivera broasdcast and recording during their live concert performance from the 2006 IAJE convention in NYC.

They worked very well for us. Thomas Sehringer, WDR's engineer was very happy with the results he got. He normally likes to use TLM170s but we went with what the sound company had available. We placed M88s on the 'pets and 'bones.

I chat about the date in a thread called big band live recording...

[Jim vanBergen]

Beyer mics, the M88 and M69, as well as the 160 and 260, are always extraordinary. Great quality IMHO and rarely, if ever, do they NOT do the job wonderfully.

[Todd Horton]

Clearly I got here too late to save this guy from a lot of senseless babbling on and on from several people who aren't even trumpet players...with a budget like his (or even without limitations) every trumpet player should own a 57 and know how to use it. Placement is everything. I've heard an sm57 in the studio produce better results than any Neumann, Sennheiser, EV or other brand. The sm58 is a bad choice for trumpet almost always.

But here's what I REALLY think: for another 100 bucks or so you can get a Beyerdynamic M201 and never need another mic for stage or studio. And unless anyone here has actually used one on a trumpet in any application you really won't know that what I am saying is the actual truth.

[Remoteness]

Fast forward one year and eight months later...

Well, there you go folks, throw out your TLM170s, R121s, U47s, 4038s or any other mic you may love on trumpet and buy a M201...

Hey, I'm up for the test -- I'd love to hear a M201 A/B'd against any of the mics listed in this babbling old stanky fart thread. You never know until you tried it. Right?

If there is anything I have learned from life, it's the fact that there is no reality, only each other's perception. May be that is how it supposed to be.

Thank goodness for truth in perception; how could we live with our decisions any other way?
Keep in mind that it may very well be an awesome transducer for this instrument.

Which would you rather do, buy one TLM170 or ten M201?
There is no wrong answer here, just perception on what is the best thing to do for your situation.

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Fast forward one year and eight months later...

Well, there you go folks, throw out your TLM170s, R121s, U47s, 4038s or any other mic you may love on trumpet and buy a M201...

Hey, I'm up for the test -- I'd love to hear a M201 A/B'd against any of the mics listed in this babbling old stanky fart thread. You never know until you tried it. Right?

If there is anything I have learned from life, it's the fact that there is no reality, only each other's perception. May be that is how it supposed to be.

Thank goodness for truth in perception; how could we live with our decisions any other way?
Keep in mind that it may very well be an awesome transducer for this instrument.

Which would you rather do, buy one TLM170 or ten M201?
There is no wrong answer here, just perception on what is the best thing to do for your situation.

This doesn't suprise me one bit, the 201 is a tight, smooth and detailed sounding mic. IMHO his obsession with a beta 56 was way off, too hard and bright for a good trumpet tone. Someone also suggested 421's, I can't understand why people like them for brass, always way too coloured and lacking in any subtlty or detail.

Regards


Roland

[rwhealey]

Here's a question: I have a trumpet soloist to mic for live reinforcement (not recorded) on Monday.

I have a choice between the standard Shure SM57/58 and some old EV RE10's and RE11's.

Anybody have input on what to pick? I was going to go with the EV, but I've used an SM58 on the same player before and it sounded good.


Plus, do soloists in this situation usually ask for a monitor or are they OK without one?

[Roland]

Originally Posted by rwhealey

Here's a question: I have a trumpet soloist to mic for live reinforcement (not recorded) on Monday.

I have a choice between the standard Shure SM57/58 and some old EV RE10's and RE11's.

Anybody have input on what to pick? I was going to go with the EV, but I've used an SM58 on the same player before and it sounded good.


Plus, do soloists in this situation usually ask for a monitor or are they OK without one?

If the 58's work and you are happy with the sound, go with it, but possibly throw the EV's up as well for experience, you might prefer them. As for monitor's it depends on the size of the gig and the style of music. A small jazz gig, maybe not, rock gig, definitely!


Regards


Roland

[Chris Wilson]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

IMO, if economics is a real issue consider (I'm not kidding) an SM58...

While not a trumpet player, I can add that when setting up for Maceo Parker, the rider had him down for two SM58's. One to sing into, the other to play into. He knew exactly what he wanted and there was nothing missing from his sound.

[leadplayer]

I'm a trumpet also... and would 2nd the endorsement of the Beyers in Jim vanBergen's post. At that price point they're more trumpet friendly. (I have the 88, 160, and 260 -- also have and use Coles and RCA 44, but not on live gigs). If you must use a Shure 5...series play off axis. 30 or 45 degrees to the "ball" of 58 will still sound good, and you won't get that "when was the last time you practiced??" character to your sound. Why waste the density of the sound of the Monette.

[Trp]

I´m a professional trumpet player, too. On stage I use either a TLM 170 or - if I want to be free to move - two AMT P800 with Shure ULX wireless systems on trumpet and fluegelhorn. The AMTs are by far the best clip on mics I´ve ever used. They actually sound good.