Upright bass session...HELP

[Yiannis]

Hi guys,

i have done my search here about similar topics but i need like your help because the session is coming on Tuesday and I don't know how to get the best results!
The player will be alone in the room.

mics :
Beyer m 88
Beyer mc 740
Akg 451 E (ck3)
Akg 414 (1971 model with original ck12)
Rode classic mk 1
AT 4050

preamps
avalon 737 sp
ULN-2


thank you guys!

[fifthcircle]

What style of music?

--Ben

[Yiannis]

Its not a common style!
it has lot of hand percussion woodwinds,guitars,violin...a sort of middle east style!
slow tempos mostly.
I need also bowed sound

[fifthcircle]

I've used M88's a lot for jazz pitz playing... Sounds great for that, actually. Not thrilled with it for a bowed sound, however.

Of your mics that you list, I'd say your 414 would probably be the best bet, although still not a favorite. My fav. bass mics include the U47 and UM57, Coles 4038 and a few others, depending on the style of the player.

You'll have to move it around to find the sweet spot, but it shouldn't be too hard. I usually start on the high string side and at about the top of the f-hole and go from there.

--Ben

[T. Morgan]

Either the 414 or 4050 will work great.
I'd start between 1 or 2 feet away, about the same height as the bridge.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by T. Morgan

Either the 414 or 4050 will work great.
I'd start between 1 or 2 feet away, about the same height as the bridge.

2' away, bridge height or just above, with a nice LDC ... place the mic on the high strings side aiming back toward them for starters

hopefully, one move from there is all you'll need.

[andru]

The biggest problem I've had with upright bass players is finding one who plays in tune with the music...

Don't get the bass player to lay down his track first... or you could have a headache... (if you are mutli tracking...)

If you have a nice sounding room you might try another mic further away to catch some of the room ambience...

Andru

[Bob Olhsson]

There's no substitute for a great bass player and bass. It's just that simple (and hard)!

[castle]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

My fav. bass mics include the U47 and UM57, Coles 4038 and a few others, depending on the style of the player.

Couldn't agree more about the UM57... using it on bass is a bit of a new descovery for me, but I've used it for every bass recording I've done in the last few months with great success. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper than a 47!

Back to the original question... I'd try the 414 about 8" in front of the f-hole (angled towards the bridge), and the 451 pointing at the neck if you need a little extra definition. This would be a starting point for me, but remember that upright bass is one of those instruments that really requires you to move the mic(s) about until it sounds right, and the sound of different basses varies wildly. Sometimes I end up with the mic 3' away and other times it's as close to the instrument as I can get it!

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by andru

The biggest problem I've had with upright bass players is finding one who plays in tune with the music...

Andru

My favourite Ed Barker quote:
As a bassplayer your ability to play in tune is directly proportional to your standard of living.

kjetil

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

My fav. bass mics include the U47 and UM57, Coles 4038 and a few others, depending on the style of the player.

--Ben

Dang it, Ben - now I'm gonna have to try a UM57 on bass. Haven't done that before...

[leddy]

I am a double bass player - I like the M88 best on my bass out of all the ones I've tried so far. Make sure you at least give that one a listen.

[Remoteness]

Very interesting -- I'm gonna give that a shot.

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Dang it, Ben - now I'm gonna have to try a UM57 on bass. Haven't done that before...

e.. you get a great big "old-style" sound. I've used it in jazz sessions, but I could imagine that it could also sound great for bluegrass and other similar musics where a big sound is needed. You do need to be careful with positioning as it can get pretty flabby sounding if you are too low on the instrument. I usually mic high string side perhaps a touch below the end of the fingerboard.

For bowed playing, it also helps smooth out the "bow grunge" that many condensers have a tendency to accentuate.

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Has anyone heard Gefell's UM75 which is their 75th anniversary replica of the UM57.

Also, I wonder why Neumann don't include the UM57 in their historic products department on their website. I need a little education on this one!

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Has anyone heard Gefell's UM75 which is their 75th anniversary replica of the UM57.

Also, I wonder why Neumann don't include the UM57 in their historic products department on their website. I need a little education on this one!

Hi, Steve - I an answer the second question - the UM57 is a Gefell Neumann, not a 'real' Neumann. It seems that I saw a history of the UM57 somwhere on the Gefell site. M7 capsule in it, though.

[Dave Martin]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

e.. you get a great big "old-style" sound. I've used it in jazz sessions, but I could imagine that it could also sound great for bluegrass and other similar musics where a big sound is needed. You do need to be careful with positioning as it can get pretty flabby sounding if you are too low on the instrument. I usually mic high string side perhaps a touch below the end of the fingerboard.

For bowed playing, it also helps smooth out the "bow grunge" that many condensers have a tendency to accentuate.

--Ben

I'll try that - I'm gonna be doing some upright tracks next week. Might even bow a little... I've been using the R84 for a couple of years, though...

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Dave Martin

Hi, Steve - I an answer the second question - the UM57 is a Gefell Neumann, not a 'real' Neumann. It seems that I saw a history of the UM57 somwhere on the Gefell site. M7 capsule in it, though.

Thanks Dave!

[Yiannis]

Hi guys,

I would like to thank you all about your help!
session has finished and i would like to tell you what i did.

I've used the 414 about 1m away to the high strings side, a little higher than the bridge ,pointing a little down.
i have put the 451 to the bridge using some foam.

in the recording room there was not any resonances,,everything was even.
In the control i have a peak around 60h and also on the headphones!
So its not the room,i think!
could you tell me what to do with this and how to eq the bass?
Also which compressor to use from the UAD or the 737sp or the Lca 2b?

i have upoad a picture ,could you tell me if it is out of phase?

thank you very much!