Recording Banjo

[mike kable]

Gonna be recording an acoustic guitarist and a Banjo player in a couple of weeks. Any tips on recording the Banjo?

Cheers

Mike

[tINY]

Don't point the mic at the center of the head - aim it towards a rim.

Use a mic with good transient response.

When it sounds awful - you got it right.



-tINY

[PRobb]

Coles 4038 works well with a banjo. An unlikely choice that has worked for me is the RE-20. And don't get too close to the picking hand or you will get too much of the plunky sound. If you can, try the mic a foot or two away for a balanced tone.

[Pohaku]

Beyer M160 works well.

[PlugHead]

I second the 4038 - a foot or more away, and aiming towards the top of the fretboard, not the fingers or skin of the instrument.

I'm glad to see others chime in for the ribbon mics: I love them on banjo, and have used SF-1's, and 160's with success as well.

A fellow I perform with has recorded elsewhere with a Sanken CU-41, or sometimes a Klaus Heyne modded U47, and it sounds REALLY good! I'm not usually a fan of bright condensers on banjo, but I can't rule out anything - just what sounds good, and what doesn't!

Best of luck with it!

[jchas]

I just did it for the first time last week. Used a 414EB (cardiod) about 2 feet in front of where the neck meets the body, and then into the Great River. Turned the mic slightly until it sounded awful (thanks tINY - i'll have to mention that to the banjo player). It must have worked - the banjo player really liked the sound and he's done a fair amount of recording in the past.

[Brian Brock]

I think that the banjo varies in sound between instruments more than almost anything but the voice.

If you listen to a really fine banjo, it's almost a guitar type of sound, where a cheap banjo can sound like a knife in your ear (that's my favorite). Another banjo will sound like like something from Turkey or China.

Also, the playing position affects the tone of the banjo far more than it does the guitar - ie picking at the bridge vs. the neck.

b

[corworld]

I've had good luck with my Kel HM-1. Tends to take away some of that bright edge but the track still cuts in the mix.

I play a old tenor banjo however so I don't have a metal resonater to deal with.

I would think a ribbon might do the same but I don't know how much adding air to the sound will help with a banjo.

[20to20]

Another vote for ribbons...

I had good results with a tenor banjo
recently using a Royer 122, appr. 2'-4' away,
aiming toward the 'neck-meets-the-body' fret...

Vary the banjo-mic distance, etc.
to adjust the ambience to taste...

When the room 'sounds good'
the mic's fig-8 pickup really helps
the banjo to sit nicely in the mix...
________________________

Also, sorta for a laff, tried clamping a
Senn e604 tom mic to the rim of the
banjo and aimed the mic at the bridge...

It's not a bad sound,
we used it on a fast tune with the
tenor playing the lead/melody...

I blended the 604 track with the
Royer track and it worked well...
_________________________

And finally,
after those threads about classic kik & snr mics...

Perhaps cast-off, tranny-boiled D112s could
become the latest banjo micing secret...

Worth a try...
.

[vancalot]

So therefore... a 57!

or if you are lucky a Telefunken Elam 201 ribbon..

v

[Rick Sutton]

Tried 4038 on banjo and didn't like it at all. Same with M160.
I stick with condensers. Neumann KM84 or KM56 are my favorites.

[mike kable]

Funny you mention a 57, the guy who plays the banjo reckons the last time he recorded the engineer used a 57!

Mike

[lowswing]

had success recording banjo and manolins for a folk album with km54 into v676

[atticus]

Last time I recorded a banjo I used a Beyer M500 into a Speck mic pre. I really liked the results I got with it.

[dave-G]

Use the mic that looks like a banjo!

(sony c-500)




-dave

[Sqye]

I though the whole point of playing banjo, was to avoid electronics AT ALL COSTS.

My partner, programmer/ co-producer in Wired Planet, would always scream
"SOMEBODY, GET ME MY BANJO",
whenever we were having computer problems - which was ALWAYS.

[zakco]

The one thing I've learned about micing banjo is that it's never the mic you think you're gonna like. Every banjo/player sound so different that you just need to experiment a bit.

I've had good results with an R84, a C414XLS and quite often an SM7b is just the ticket. I've also had decent results with a SM57, go figure.

[NathanEldred]

Vintage KM84 or Schoeps CMC6 MKIV (cardiod). The schoeps is the closest new mic on the market that I've heard, to the KM84 (while the Gefell's and Josephsons sound excellent as expected they have a more lifted high frequency in comparison). The Schoeps sounds less 'pingy' and more balanced than the KM84 too FWIW.

[structuredloud]

Is it an "old time" banjo or a new one (one has a resonator). I use two mics, one for articulation (12th fret etc.) and one for the meat of it (near a the rim on the head). Don't care what kind of mic it is. Pick one that looks like a hoot-in-hollar of a damn thing.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Vintage KM84 or Schoeps CMC6 MKIV (cardiod). The schoeps is the closest new mic on the market that I've heard, to the KM84 (while the Gefell's and Josephsons sound excellent as expected they have a more lifted high frequency in comparison). The Schoeps sounds less 'pingy' and more balanced than the KM84 too FWIW.

I second the Schoeps recommendation. When I don't have my KM56 or KM84 handy I've grabbed the Schoeps and have been very pleased. Nicely balanced with enough of the thwack.

[mike kable]

Originally Posted by structuredloud

Is it an "old time" banjo or a new one (one has a resonator). I use two mics, one for articulation (12th fret etc.) and one for the meat of it (near a the rim on the head). Don't care what kind of mic it is. Pick one that looks like a hoot-in-hollar of a damn thing.

Im not to sure what type it is but the guy was telling me that he built it himself and was telling me how the body was similar to a snare drum, it looked fantastic.

[Jimbo]

Is the player going to use finger-picks (ala Scruggs-style -- that's Earl in my avatar --) or is he going to frail (a.k.a "clawhammer").

If it's the former you have to deal with pick-noise. You can attenuate the pick-noise by:
- moving the mic further away
- using a ribbon or dynamic mic

Recently, I've had good results blending a ribbon placed in front of the banjo head with a SDC pointing down at the banjo. You could also try the ribbon in front with a SDC up on the neck.

If the player is going to use clawhammer, then pick-noise is not an issue, and you might want to put a SDC where neck meets the banjo head.

If the banjo has a resonator, you can accentuate the "woody" tones by putting a SDC pointing downward and in towards the flange holes. I've had really good results doing this with SDC omnis. The flange is the metal strip with holes that runs around the pot/body of the banjo, between the pot and the resonator. Miking the flange holes will produce a softer, woodier tone, while miking the head/face of the banjo will produce a crisper, drier tone.

Good luck,

- Jim

[Jimbo]

BTW, I'd like to hear what you come up with. Can you post or send some sound files?

Thanks.

[mike kable]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

BTW, I'd like to hear what you come up with. Can you post or send some sound files?

Thanks.

Thanks Jimbo. I'll have to sort myself out a 'myspace' so I can upload some some soundfiles of the session.

Mike

[A27Hull]

mic it in stereo...

[mike kable]

Originally Posted by A27Hull

mic it in stereo...

Thanks A27Hull, thing is the banjo player, acoustic guitarists and female singers want to record 'live' in the studio to get the vibe so would it still be worth recording the banjo in stereo?

Thanks

Mike

[A27Hull]

Could be interesting, I like using too many mics, often. Time may not allow.

but I guess that kinda changes things,

Assuming they will be playing in the same room, a single mic would be the easy way to go.

If you can, organize them in a fashion (prehaps in a semi-circle) that will allow the musicians to face each other, then move spot mics around to get good phase relations. Bleed will be a helper if the phase relationships between mics play nice. Of course, the product will depend on their performance.

I would like to try this using some center room stereo or quad mics for room ambience, and shoot for a kind of spatial/depth perspective on the instruments.

As for mics on banjo, Ive got to vote SDC, particularly KM 84 or Sanken, or Gefell. But use what you got, and it will be fine.

Ive seen studio sessions where, with a little isolation, a stereo set up can be used on guitar and banjo. Say, one on the shoulder one on the body/neck junction. Feel it out.

Anyway, hope this helps,

Andrew Wayland @ AfaraWayland

[dubrichie]

i got great results with a blue baby bottle combined with a stereo pair of km184.

primarily the blue mic though, there was also a guy playing ac guitar in the room and i was going for both with the stereo mics.
just take the time to walk around the person playing it.

i ended up with the blue about, ooh, 3 or 4 feet back pointing across the banjo at about 30-45 degrees from the neck towards the body, the stereo pair coincident (not exactly xy 90 degrees) and back about maybe 10 feet. not a great room and the crappy preamps in the control 24.

just spend the time listening and moving around, try wooden floor, try a rug under the chair, etc.

regards,

richie.

[David R.]

Really depends on the song and if it the feature instrument.

Use your favorite condencer, ribbon or dynamic. Big thing is the placement, which will vary from banjo to banjo. They have this horrible frequency bump which is what makes it sound like a banjo, use this to your advantage.

Don't be afraid to eq the snot out of it on the mix, that is what I have found.

Have fun, use your banjo jokes wisely.

[mike kable]

Hey, great tips guys I really appreciate it.

I love it when the spill adds its own 'thing'.

Thanks again

Mike