Making a career of acoustic recording

[king2070lplaya]

I have a dilemma....

Assuming all goes well, I am planning on entering graduate school this coming fall. Thus far, I have mainly been looking to get my masters in performance on trumpet, which is my main axe. My goal, my reason for attending school again, is to become an unstoppable, incredible player and to further my intellectual and spiritual understanding of music, while also making professional and academic connections and friendships.

HOWEVER, I have come to the conclusion over the past year or so that my work in classical/acoustic audio engineering is what I find most rewarding and satisfying, and I feel like this is the direction I would choose for my profession.

I have for the past few weeks been researching additional graduate programs in audio engineering, but I feel a bit lost as I am doing my research. Whereas with the music degree I know what I want and, having been around music schools for my collegiate life, I know pretty well how I will achieve it. But with audio engineering, most of the graduate programs I find seem, at least on the surface, to be very very diversified, (ie masters in digital media, etc.) with a few exceptions.

So I thought I would bring it here, and see what the general consensus and experience is regarding audio engineering education and graduate study.

My specific questions are then:

1) What are the top schools to look at for audio engineering, SPECIFICALLY in regards to classical, jazz, and acoustic production?

2) If you are a top performer, schools will foot the bill if they feel that you as an alumnus of their institution is a valuable enough investment. Are there also such scholarships available to those seeking AE grad degrees?

3) Is having a graduate degree, or any degree in AE for that matter, going to give me more of an edge in the professional field? Compared to a graduate degree in music performance and an impressive portfolio of recording work and recommendations?

This is where I am at right now, any input would be quite appreciated, and if there are facets that I haven't considered that you feel are important to chip in they are very welcome to me!

Thanks very much everyone! Looking forward to the responses.

And PS, as I said before, I seek a career working on acoustic music, ie jazz, classical, bluegrass, etc. I am not looking to make a career in a pop recording studio. What makes audio engineering appealing to me is that you are capturing an acoustic moment as accurately or in-the-character as possible. To set mics up, move them around, and capture a great performance in a great way, this experience is what I enjoy and what makes me seek this career. My experience with pop recording, however, has been (again with exception) quite the opposite, to where you CREATE the performance after the playing has already happened, by comping tracks, tuning and moving and cutting and pasting and dubbing parts until the artist is finished. This is cool and all, and much of the music I love was made this way, but this is not really what I am trying to get into, especially given the popular music climate today.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

I have a dilemma....

Assuming all goes well, I am planning on entering graduate school this coming fall. Thus far, I have mainly been looking to get my masters in performance on trumpet, which is my main axe. My goal, my reason for attending school again, is to become an unstoppable, incredible player and to further my intellectual and spiritual understanding of music, while also making professional and academic connections and friendships.

HOWEVER, I have come to the conclusion over the past year or so that my work in classical/acoustic audio engineering is what I find most rewarding and satisfying, and I feel like this is the direction I would choose for my profession.

I have for the past few weeks been researching additional graduate programs in audio engineering, but I feel a bit lost as I am doing my research. Whereas with the music degree I know what I want and, having been around music schools for my collegiate life, I know pretty well how I will achieve it. But with audio engineering, most of the graduate programs I find seem, at least on the surface, to be very very diversified, (ie masters in digital media, etc.) with a few exceptions.

So I thought I would bring it here, and see what the general consensus and experience is regarding audio engineering education and graduate study.

My specific questions are then:

1) What are the top schools to look at for audio engineering, SPECIFICALLY in regards to classical, jazz, and acoustic production?

2) If you are a top performer, schools will foot the bill if they feel that you as an alumnus of their institution is a valuable enough investment. Are there also such scholarships available to those seeking AE grad degrees?

3) Is having a graduate degree, or any degree in AE for that matter, going to give me more of an edge in the professional field? Compared to a graduate degree in music performance and an impressive portfolio of recording work and recommendations?

This is where I am at right now, any input would be quite appreciated, and if there are facets that I haven't considered that you feel are important to chip in they are very welcome to me!

Thanks very much everyone! Looking forward to the responses.

And PS, as I said before, I seek a career working on acoustic music, ie jazz, classical, bluegrass, etc. I am not looking to make a career in a pop recording studio. What makes audio engineering appealing to me is that you are capturing an acoustic moment as accurately or in-the-character as possible. To set mics up, move them around, and capture a great performance in a great way, this experience is what I enjoy and what makes me seek this career. My experience with pop recording, however, has been (again with exception) quite the opposite, to where you CREATE the performance after the playing has already happened, by comping tracks, tuning and moving and cutting and pasting and dubbing parts until the artist is finished. This is cool and all, and much of the music I love was made this way, but this is not really what I am trying to get into, especially given the popular music climate today.

dont think you will find a real graduate program in that area

for audio engineering your best bet is the local community college. faster better easier cheaper yada yada.

1 - n/a - they do not specialise
2 - no
3 - no

i would identify real jobs before you pursue another useless degree/classes

[RobAnderson]

I'd say look into McGill or NYU Steinhardt if you are really looking for a graduate "AE" program.

However, unless you are going in as a composer or researcher of some kind, scholarships are usually not forthcoming for someone just doing AE. More food for thought: a graduate degree is big time $$$.

Unless your objective is to land a teaching gig, you may find it hard to pay back that sort of cheese.

If you are going to go this route, I'd recommend getting involved in researching some sort of cutting edge stuff related to the field: advanced computer modeling, 3D audio, electronic composition, research and design. You might have more luck getting grants and scholarships that way.

On the other hand, I'd say you have a better shot at getting grants and scholarships as a performer. Sticking with the trumpet route for a degree may not be a bad way to go either.

[Howie J]

I'm in a similar situation right now. I am in the process of applying for a masters degree and did a good amount of research on a number of different schools.

This might be a bit long...but it's not a "quick and easy" decision in life.

I have an A.A.S. in Production and a Bachelors in Music Ed. (also a trumpet player)

I work for a school as the Tech Director for the Fine Arts department and run our auditorium. However, I sort of landed in this gig in the middle of applying for a TON of music teaching gigs. I love the acoustic/classical/jazz recording thing too. I get to record about 20 concerts a year as part of my job and love the challenge every time.

I have been talking with some of my undergrad profs and people from my production school and the big question always came up was, "What do you want to do with your masters?" As much as I love tech and recording, I found the educational world always calls me and I love being in front of a band. I would love to be the director of bands at a college level some day and teach music technology for music educators.

So, I looked at two things:

-Masters in Music Ed
-Masters in Music Tech

Like Rob mentioned, the two I found the most interesting were McGill "Sound Recording" and NYU Steinhardt. Some others were IUPUI, UC Santa Barbara, Georgia Tech....however many of these programs went one of two distinct ways. Either REALLY heavy in computer programming/engineering/coding/etc. or they were basically music ed with a bunch of intro to mid level tech stuff thrown in.

As cool as the tech is...I'm not a programming/coding guy or an electrical engineer. I know some basics of each....don't want to do it as a career. I love to integrate those products among students and colleagues and teach them how to make their life better with them.

I also didn't want to be redundant with my Production degree combined with my Music Ed.

Another factor was that I just can't do a degree in residence in another state. Even though some are almost completely online, I feel that if I'm paying that much money...I want to be hands on and be around people who I can go to and pick their brain.

I am doing the Masters in Music Ed here in MN for the following reasons: (obviously all unique to my situation, but it might help the thinking process)

-The M.A.M.E. is a good, academic degree that gives me new opportunities at both the public/private HS/MS level and possible "ins" to colleges.

-It still gives me a pretty broad scope of research opportunities.

-It is local (literally 2 miles from my job) and can be done while I keep my job..(and my house and my wife)

-For now, I can do self study and continue to work in the area/industry to better my craft WHILE I get the degree.

-I'm networking in the area for playing and recording gigs. I have to take a major and minor instrument, so I will still be improving my playing.

Unfortunately, the local program is at a private school and is just as expensive as an out-of-state "state" school. I'm staring down 33k before scholarships.

It sucks...but the market I'm in has stagnated a bit and is just sitting there. All my profs I talked to agreed that money notwithstanding, it's a good window to knock out a masters. I'm already in debt...what's a little more and a degree to help open doors.


This is a condensed version of the mental pummeling I've been going through for the past two months.

Howie J

[boojum]

McGill has an excellent program. You will be required to live in Montreal, Quebec, the French-speaking province of Canada. This can be disconcerting to some. Montreal is a vibrant city, very cultured and very hip. Education at McGill can be either in French or in English. You may want to check what their Tonmeister program is all about ahead of time. It is a top school.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Honestly a masters degree in recording does not mean much in today's world unless you are going to be a professor and teach.

[Jim Williams]

Yep. Best to get out there. If you can support yourself for a while try to intern for some that are doing what you want to learn. You won't get paid but that education cannot be bought in school. It will also give you an exposure to the field before committing your life to it.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Honestly a masters degree in recording does not mean much in today's world unless you are going to be a professor and teach.

Tom, I am thinking of McGill here, I would think that the training, theory and practice in-house and in Montreal in general would be invaluable for someone wanting the Tonmeister education. Are you saying it has little weight or cachet in the working world?

Disclaimer: I am biased as McGill is my alma mater.

[Plush]

I can tell you that recording companies, broadcasters, television networks, post houses etc. all really value actively engaged participant engineers from a few top schools and their respected programs.

Usually these programs are imitating the tonmeister degree regimen where one has dual degrees or dual areas of emphasis ---one in performance and the other in the recording side. The top schools are defined and set apart by one thing. They are music conservatories.

The top programs are clearly at McGill and Indiana University. Both are excellent starts but I would jump at being able to be in Montreal vs. downstate Indiana. I know and respect the people who run both these programs.

The other places are Detmold in Germany and Surrey in England. That pretty much wraps it up in my opinion.

Many of the other places in the United States that hold themselves out as acoustic (read classical) recording training programs are not for real. Sadly and very behind the times (in fact stuck in the late 60's and stoned 70's) these places often focus on making a computer make a noise or programming a computer to modify a noise. The 2nd. and 3rd. tier leftovers hose prospective "engineers" and disingenuously and fraudulently cater to the rock and roll "engineer" dream.

After completing McGill or the IU program, one makes themselves attractive to the very few companies doing recording for real. The attractiveness quotient that you present depends on your specific skills. Music editing, orchestral score reading, fluency in musical descriptive language, expert mic set-up boy, just plain set-up boy, musical super star hand holder, servicer,
"(very!) personal assistant" or psychologist are all valued talents in the craft.

In these programs you will learn to be a good collaborator.

All higher education costs money, so that is always a factor in making the decision.

Now I do need to address the now oft heard language which posits that college really isn't necessary these days or that gradudate school really isn't necessary these days.

The people who say this fail to be convincing in the very first instance because they give away to the listener that they are NOT a curious person.

Curious and engaged gets a person far in this world and in a creative sphere.
Less than 25% of people in the United States have a college degree. Why not set yourself apart?

Whether one chooses IU or McGill or another QUALITY place certainly the most important thing is to be able to hang out with, to be mentored by and to absorb ideas from the top people who run and teach at these places. That is truly invaluable.

For the OP may I just say that there is no where in Chicago where it is worth doing this type of academic training. Sad but true.

[philper]

If you have the juice to get in to a place like McGill, do it. It will change your life. If you don't have that juice, then consider a general liberal arts degree at a solid college (perhaps a state school for cheap), and then see if you can make the cut at a McGill. In the meantime, learn everything you can about recording on your own, and DO IT whenever you can, so that whatever academic training you eventually get will have meaning for you. You are a musician, you know the value of practice and repetition of tasks. Meanwhile, with a liberal arts etc degree, you will probably end up being a broader and more generally knowledgeable person than the average graduate of one of the for profit-type "universities of recording".

phil p

[Howie J]

That McGill program was the only one that I was going to take a shot at doing out of state. That looks like a wicked cool program. I love the classical base of it. The tonmeister training is awesome. Very cool all around.

If you look, their Music Technology is very "technical" like was mentioned before. More on the CS/EE side of the world. Wouldn't doubt that is equally as strong.

I just don't know how that would go over with my wife..."Hey honey, ever been to Montreal?? Want to live there for a while??"

Plus...I'd have to watch almost all Eastern Conference hockey games and rarely see my beloved Wild play. At least it would be a hockey town.

Howie J

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Again what is a masters degree from McGill going to do for you when you want to do acoustical recordings? I think getting out there and actually doing the recordings is a much better way but if you have the money and want to stay in school go for it. McGill is one of the best places in the world to learn to be an audio engineer and their graduates are legendary.

Best of luck!

[Plush]

In answer to the question , "What is a master's degree going to do for you,?" I would say that if you move to a recording center, it will do a lot for you.

Recording centers are places such as New York, Chicago, St. Paul (APM), Berlin, Hamburg, Heidelburg, all of the western part of Germany near the French border, Radio France, parts of Ohio (5/4 Prod.), Toronto (CBC Radio), all govt. broadcast places in Europe etc.

Nothing on the west coast of USA qualifies and nothing in the south (that I luv) qualifies.

So if one wants to live the dream, one has to BE where the dream can be accomplished. That means moving to where the dream can be accomplished.

Now THAT is what time it is!

Just so you know.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Plush

In answer to the question , "What is a master's degree going to do for you,?" I would say that if you move to a recording center, it will do a lot for you.

Recording centers are places such as New York, Chicago, St. Paul (APM), Berlin, Hamburg, Heidelburg, all of the western part of Germany near the French border, Radio France, parts of Ohio (5/4 Prod.), Toronto (CBC Radio), all govt. broadcast places in Europe etc.

Nothing on the west coast of USA qualifies and nothing in the south (that I luv) qualifies.

So if one wants to live the dream, one has to BE where the dream can be accomplished. That means moving to where the dream can be accomplished.

Now THAT is what time it is!

Just so you know.

There are way to many people offering recording services and less and less people who seem to need their services (due to lots of institutions having built in A-V facilities). It is a case of over supply and under use. Places that you mentioned are already over loaded with GREAT engineers and people who really know what they are doing and have the contacts and networking to get the jobs and survive. Being a new kid on the block in New York or other big music center is not going to be fun for anyone even IF they have an advanced degree from McGill. Today it is dog eat dog world out there and it is getting worse not better as hundreds of schools keep turning out audio engineers with no place to use their talents. Many of the recent graduates think "gee maybe I could start a remote recording business" and they do and they fail. The other problem today is chip recorders are getting better and better and budgets for classical recording are going down down down so many conductors and artist are doing their own audio and video recordings of their concerts and even doing the A-V editing later. Just think if twenty additional graduates from the top audio schools in the world all of a sudden all decided to move to Chicago to start their own recording businesses in competition with the people who are already there - how much of a strain would that put on people who were already trying to make a living off audio. A bit frightening to say the least. The classical groups I work for are getting snail mail and email daily from people offering to do their recording for basically nothing and this is in a small, less than 10,000 person town. I cannot imagine what it is like in large cities.

I wish the OP only the best but having an advanced degree in audio, even from McGill, is NOT, IMHO. going to make any difference today unless you are going to teach and need the advanced degree to get hired.

YMMV

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I wish the OP only the best but having an advanced degree in audio, even from McGill, is NOT, IMHO. going to make any difference today unless you are going to teach and need the advanced degree to get hired.
YMMV

I know tonmeisters that are hard pressed to get classical recording gigs mostly because there aren't that many of them. Supply of AE's exceeds the demand by a long shot. Yes, if you are the best and have a long carreer you may get there, but at what cost in quality of life?

Classical recording budgets and labels are down, down, down. Supply of unemployed AE's are up, up, up. Do the math. Get a degree in something useful like EE, BA, MBA, etc. At least you will have a decent job and income while you persure other avenues.

Dreams are fine, best backed up with realities.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I know tonmeisters that are hard pressed to get classical recording gigs mostly because there aren't that many of them. Supply of AE's exceeds the demand by a long shot. Yes, if you are the best and have a long carreer you may get there, but at what cost in quality of life?

Classical recording budgets and labels are down, down, down. Supply of unemployed AE's are up, up, up. Do the math. Get a degree in something useful like EE, BA, MBA, etc. At least you will have a decent job and income while you persure other avenues.

Dreams are fine, best backed up with realities.

EXACTLY and well said!

[Studiodawg]

I get many recording dates for classical in my geographic location. I think Jim and Tom will concur that the classical music community is "cliquey" and if you are the go-to recording company for Maestro A, then Maestro B will want you as well because he is buddies with Maestro A. Word of mouth and reputation of sonic quality are what made my recording service a success. If you believe in yourself, never give up. Just for the record, I have a geology degree and use it as well...best of luck in all your pursuits!

[Foldedpath]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

There are way to many people offering recording services and less and less people who seem to need their services (due to lots of institutions having built in A-V facilities). It is a case of over supply and under use.

If I were young and looking at the range of options for starting a career, that would be something I'd be thinking very hard about. You're basically betting your future (or at least a big chunk of years and tuition) on a hope that there will still be an industry out there that will hire you. And also that the competition won't be so fierce for the few remaining jobs, that you'll have to be in the top 0.01 percentile of talented engineers to work at all. If you guess wrong, or just don't make the cut, you end up flipping burgers. Or at least starting from scratch with another career.

With the shaky state of classical music, traditional acoustic jazz, and the declining ability to monetize the sale of music, it might not be a bad idea to consider a "sideways" career in something that will still be viable down the road. For example a law degree specializing in copyright, or an architecture degree specializing in acoustic design (which covers a lot of well-paying work outside the music field).

I had a long career in advertising photography back before the digital wave hit, and I'd give the same advice to anyone wanting to work in photography now. The digital wave has hit some industries much harder than others, and the old rules just don't apply any more. Not if you want to make a decent living, raise a family, afford medical insurance, and have some hope of a stable retirement.

This is bummer advice, I know... just trying to be realistic. And more power to 'ya, if you can make it work!

[king2070lplaya]

Well I'm already making coffee for a living, so I have only up to go.

I understand what you are saying, but I have literally stumbled into a situation right now where I am doing 2-3 sessions a week without trying at all.... No advertising, handing out business cards, promo demos, nada. Purely by word of mouth. Perhaps this is giving me a false sense of security that this will continue or go up with more training/connections/experience/job openings etc?

I've been of the opinion for the past 5-8 years that the more flexible I am the more work I will get, but i am constantly frightened of the old "player of many, master of none" adage, hence te quest for higher education in a dedicated field.

[Plush]

The specific skill needed to really set one apart from the crowd is to be really great at classical music editing from a marked score. It is necessary to hone one's skills in this area over 5 years or so until you are really good.

You have to start by understanding music and an orchestral / chamber music score and then you have to become one with your chosen edit platform. Basically this platform is one of three systems out there now.

1. SADiE--really the best and the fastest because of the "trim window" feature. Used by top editors who like to be a SADiST to the music and whip it in to shape.
Not a multi-track monster like PT and not needed to be either. Can edit like a demon on this system with nice VST plug-in compatibility supporting de-noising and sophisticated EQ's and look ahead comps. Now native with V.6. Support from the company is outstanding with access to support in the US in NJ and in the UK a phone call away.

2. Sequoia--a really nice system as well. Used by many top editors and especially popular in DE. Support in the USA could be better and sometimes you is on your own, baby. Still a very good system.

3. Pyramix is for the super achiever and user manual gobbler. Steep learning curve on this system pays great benefits after getting up to speed. Support in the USA is not what SADiE is, but is decent none the less.
Check out their new HORUS networked a/d and d/a converter setup.

So mastering the edit side is really vital and I cannot stress enough how this will set you apart from the mopes who cannot do this. I am talking about really difficult edits and I am also talking about manufacturing the music (from someone who can't play it properly) when that unfortunate circumstance is required.

Is it a competitive environment? Yes it is. What thing worth pursuing and mastering is not a competitive sport these days? Has it ever been different?

The record is made in the edit room and so that is where the 1000's of hours must be sweated.

If you're good, you will be rewarded.

[Studiodawg]

+1 Plush has touched on a very important point. I have a project that needs these edits currently and it is going to take a long time to get it done...

[Don S]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

I've been of the opinion for the past 5-8 years that the more flexible I am the more work I will get, but i am constantly frightened of the old "player of many, master of none" adage, hence te quest for higher education in a dedicated field.

You have a good attitude! If you want to compete for higher paying jobs, then I would go for the higher ed route. Even though you probably could hone your skills in the same amount of time by working alongside someone like Plush or Tim Martin. The only concern I would have is - are the jobs that will justify the cost of the degree going to be around when you're done? The economy is not done contracting. Which means dollars are going to saved by downsizing in any department. Unfortunately, music and audio are usually the first to get cut. FWIW many of my friends in the trenches of freelance audio are switching to video.
Also, I hope you keep playing. Since you are already getting a chunk of work, it shows people value your opinion and it probably has something to do with being an accomplished player. No one is as critical as an orchestral musician!

[boojum]

A slight off-topic note: Sequoia has an affordable kid brother: Samplitude. Also, Samplitude has a new release, X, which is available for a 30 day test drive for free. I have no connection with the company other than using their editor.

[Rolo 46]

Knowledge is power
Take it when you can
I was going for Geology and Big Oil when the BBC made an offer to me.
This I never regretted.
Classical music is in decline,and the product is made in the splice
If you can face this, as opposed to the true pleasure of recording ,pursue your dream.
Every facet to your talents is useful,stills photography was a second for me,this option again I was later offered by the BBC.
Gather your talents and multiply.
What have you got to loose?

[king2070lplaya]

Thanks for all this, you folks are too kind to chip in so much time and information. You say all of this like it's going to be a burden, but it really just makes me more excited to get deeper into it. Score reading is almost a hobby for me; i spend hours a week scouring the public domain score site. editing is something I practice almost as much as my horn, albeit in Protools..... How are these dedicated systems mentioned here different from Protools as far as editing is concerned?

Again thanks for your input, threads like this are the reason i value GS so much.

Again thanks,

[boojum]

The gist is that you are pursuing an impossible dream. Joseph Campbell's stock response to students seeking his advice for a career path was, "Follow your bliss." Its corollary is just up this thread a bit:

"Doing what you love is freedom.
Loving what you do is happiness."

If you know it will be difficult if not impossible and are undeterred you'd better do it. You will wonder the rest of you life, "What if . . . ", if you do not. I wish you all the best in your endeavors. I took some chances and while they might not have always worked out as I had planned I do not regret having taken those chances. They enriched my life immensely. I have pissed off a lot of money on this hobby and do not regret it at all. I am living out a dream. And just as blind hogs can get lucky, I get a good pull now and again. I enjoy that immensely.

All the best in your career.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Plush

The specific skill needed to really set one apart from the crowd is to be really great at classical music editing from a marked score. It is necessary to hone one's skills in this area over 5 years or so until you are really good.

You have to start by understanding music and an orchestral / chamber music score and then you have to become one with your chosen edit platform. Basically this platform is one of three systems out there now.

1. SADiE--really the best and the fastest because of the "trim window" feature. Used by top editors who like to be a SADiST to the music and whip it in to shape.
Not a multi-track monster like PT and not needed to be either. Can edit like a demon on this system with nice VST plug-in compatibility supporting de-noising and sophisticated EQ's and look ahead comps. Now native with V.6. Support from the company is outstanding with access to support in the US in NJ and in the UK a phone call away.

2. Sequoia--a really nice system as well. Used by many top editors and especially popular in DE. Support in the USA could be better and sometimes you is on your own, baby. Still a very good system.

3. Pyramix is for the super achiever and user manual gobbler. Steep learning curve on this system pays great benefits after getting up to speed. Support in the USA is not what SADiE is, but is decent none the less.
Check out their new HORUS networked a/d and d/a converter setup.

So mastering the edit side is really vital and I cannot stress enough how this will set you apart from the mopes who cannot do this. I am talking about really difficult edits and I am also talking about manufacturing the music (from someone who can't play it properly) when that unfortunate circumstance is required.

Is it a competitive environment? Yes it is. What thing worth pursuing and mastering is not a competitive sport these days? Has it ever been different?

The record is made in the edit room and so that is where the 1000's of hours must be sweated.

If you're good, you will be rewarded.

Very nicely said and all too true. Sometimes the whole project is made or destroyed in the editing suite. I worked with a producer/editor for a long time and he would literally spend hours fixing parts of one measure just to get it right. He had exceptional ears and talent and could literally hear if the string player was using the first, second or third fingering. He died, way to young, of cancer a couple of years ago.

One other thing to add to the discussion. A lot of classical music is still being performed today but the audiences are dwindling and the cost of presenting it to the public has increased exponentially. I am fortunate to live in a town where there is a major conservatory of music and I can go to a lot of classical concerts for free. Even when a world class artist comes to town the tickets, if you can get one, are reasonably priced. This makes listening to live classical music something that is enjoyable and affordable. It is too bad that so much of what I enjoy listening to is so expensive in other parts of the US. Classical music will always be with us but if things do not change the only way a lot of people will be able to enjoy it is off a CD or DVD. If the trend continues of higher and higher ticket prices and less and less people able to afford them then live concerts maybe come a luxury only to be enjoyed by a few persons that can afford the tariff and have and interest in seeing concerts live.

Slightly off topic - I recorded the Cleveland Opera from their start in a high school auditorium until they started having money problems and could no longer afford to have their concerts recorded due to the demands of the orchestra members for more and more fees for the recording rights. They folded soon after they stopped recording due to a number of factors including fiscal mismanagement and failing attendance. This was a GREAT cultural resource for the people of Northern Ohio and there passing was a real blow to the arts community.

The Cleveland Orchestra is one of the worlds greatest orchestras but the cost of presenting live concerts and the cost of world class musicians has put a strain on their fiscal resources and they always seem to be spending more than they are making. They are not in real trouble - YET but there are mounting fiscal problems that may be problematic in the future. One orchestra, the RED orchestra was doing well in these parts but was underfunded and basically went out of business literally overnight when a freak snow storm closed their concert venue and they did not have the money to continue to perform after paying all the expenses.

I bring these examples up because I see that something a lot of us enjoy recording is going nowhere fast and many local and regional orchestras are shutting down or simply going out of existence and this effects us all.

All I can say is if you are able "SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CLASSICAL PERFORMANCE GROUPS" or you may find we are eventually all out of jobs.

[Gaston69]

The more I get involved in recording classical music I realize that education is a must as well musical (understanding of music, reading scores) and the technical aspect.
Above statement is based on my last weeks project were I worked together with 3 grammy's award winner Tobias Lehmann from Teldex and Johannes Mueller from MSM studio's Munich. I acted as an assistant and operated the recorder and helped setting up the microphones etc etc.

Then there is another aspect which is the communication with conductor, orchestra, lighting and film crew etc etc.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

Thanks for all this, you folks are too kind to chip in so much time and information. You say all of this like it's going to be a burden, but it really just makes me more excited to get deeper into it. Score reading is almost a hobby for me; i spend hours a week scouring the public domain score site. editing is something I practice almost as much as my horn, albeit in Protools..... How are these dedicated systems mentioned here different from Protools as far as editing is concerned?

Again thanks for your input, threads like this are the reason i value GS so much.

Again thanks,

Hello Playa,

I think that you would find that using one of the excellent editing *systems* listed above is to move to a true editing platform instead of a PT studio in a box environment.

Pro Tools editing is clumsy compared to the others and on PT it is virtually impossible to do intricate and delicate edits that the other platforms allow you to do routinely.

Only a test drive will show you the difference. All of the platforms now offer a native version so hooking up a system is more affordable than ever.

Moving off of PT is essential. Later you will realize what a dog it is.

I recommend hooking up your native edit system with a RME box like the Fireface UFX and also using an outstanding d/a like a Benchmark DAC1 or similar. When doing work I never monitor with the d/a out of the box.

What used to cost $500,000-$1,000,000 now can be had for $10,000.

A person can only progress in this difficult business by working
with / by / for other masters (people with 25+ years in the business) who know so much more than the learner that it is not even a discussion. You will never get to even meet these people, let alone work with them, if you do not prepare yourself.

Certainly one important part of this training is learning how to talk to conductors and musicians whether they be village people or world famous names. There is a narrow range of behavior and if you adhere to these mores, you will always be accepted and hopefully, eventually, trusted.

[Studiodawg]

Good point, communication with the conductor has always been a top priority for me. The "I'm on your team" philosophy is what I bring to the conductor. Probably the second most important person I communicate with is the stage manager (or venue rep.)...