Dealing with noisy film camera

[Lzon]

Hi everyone,
I am recording sound for a short at the weekend, and have been informed that the shoot will take place with a Canon Scoopic M camera. From what I have read these cameras seem to be incredibly noisy.

My question is what is the best way to deal with this noise on set?

I am thinking of building some kind of makeshift blimp for the camera and using lavaliers instead of/ as well as the boom....

Does anyone have any other (better) ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[Matti]

Blimp and trying to aim the mics nulls to the camera, some noise reduction and notch filtering. In the picture the mic isn't aimed correctly ( too lazy to photoshop ) but when booming aim the nulls to the noise source while aiming the front lobe to the subject -thinking of overhead booming here.
The same goes for shotgun mics if outdoors.
That camera was never intended for sync shoots.

Matti

[Rolo 46]

Good luck.......
Get them to use long lenses
Or shoot through the window.
Record a good WT,you will need it.

[Lzon]

Thanks! do you think it's worth going with the Lavs at all?

[Matti]

You could use them but with the boom on separate tracks, imho.
Remember the lavs are omnis and pick up surroundings also, even if they are closer to the source. But you loose the natural percpective with them

Matti

[Lzon]

Nice one Matti. Thanks for your help..

[philper]

Has anyone done a test on that very old camera to see that it actually runs reliably on-speed? Your best sound move with that camera is to blimp it the best you can. We made a drop-on cover out of layers of furniture pad sewn together that worked pretty well for these and for Bolex cameras.

phil p

[Rolo 46]

You could always NR it
Cedar is best but there are some cheap derivatives that might cope

In the old days sound editors would bloop optical tracks(with blooping ink) to eliminate camera noise between words
They would also scratch mag emulsion off mag tracks
Nothing is new
The first form of gating ......

[Lzon]

Something quite thick for the cover then...
@Rolo46 definitely looking to sort some of the noise out in post - but want to get as good a recording as possible

@philper I've read that for quick edits it should be easy enough to keep the film manually matched to audio... I hope.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Lzon

Something quite thick for the cover then...
@Rolo46 definitely looking to sort some of the noise out in post - but want to get as good a recording as possible

@philper I've read that for quick edits it should be easy enough to keep the film manually matched to audio... I hope.

What you are referring to is a bail-out, a worst-case-scenario fix. You'll find that relying on that, a la "El Mariachi" etc will severely limit how you can edit your film, cost you a huge amount of extra time and be very much in the way of your creative energies in post. It is about 6000% better to have your work START in sync, and worth the extra trouble. Make the effort to find out if your camera is running on speed exactly. Shoot a test, with frequent slate claps and a close up of someone speaking. It is better to KNOW what is going on than to GUESS.

All cinema noise reduction tools work under "Berger's Law" (re: Mark Berger, 4-time Oscar winning mixer): they work best when you need them the least. Again, I advise you to NOT rely on techno-fixes to solve problems that are far better dealt with directly during production. Quiet the camera down how ever you can. Be glad it isn't a video camera, so won't have overheat issues when it is bundled up. Consider adding an optical flat to the lens if no filters are being used (the lens acts as a trumpet for the noise of the film movement, aimed right at the talent).

phil p

[Matti]

Originally Posted by Lzon

@philper I've read that for quick edits it should be easy enough to keep the film manually matched to audio... I hope.

-Assuming that the camera is on right speed. There was a crystal control modification for this Canon Scoopic but as it is it is not a sync camera and can go way off the selected speed.

Matti

[Lzon]

Tests sound like a good idea too. I will make sure that we do that..

[Branko]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

In the old days sound editors would bloop optical tracks(with blooping ink) to eliminate camera noise between words
The first form of gating ......

Hmmmm, that would surely sound very very strange... Did they do it on negative or positive?

[Matti]

Positive obviously, with negative you stamp a hole in it for example at the joint / cut -whats the right word,
when you join pieces of sound negative you punch little fades at the joint / cut

Matti

EDIT: sure you could do this on negatives also by painting fades in and out

[Lzon]

In the end the main actor called in sick so we spent a while doing sound tests.. As many predicted the camera was unworkable. Nothing significant we could do about the noise so shoot was postponed until they get a new one sorted.
Gearslutz - spot on as always. Thanks everyone..

[Rolo 46]

Thats called a Barney,we had them in lead ,corduroy and leather.
No point with a Scoopic its too bloody noisy for sync