What Do I Need to Become a Production Sound Mixer?

[A.Dot]

Hey Guys,

I'm interested in getting into the world of freelance Production Sound and wondering firstly, what gear do I need?

Secondly, How do I get my foot in the door?

thanks!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by A.Dot

Secondly, How do I get my foot in the door?

thanks!

About the same way as becoming a movie director or cameraman. Luck and perseverance.

[tourtelot]

Can I assume that you are asking about how to become a soundman in the film and television world?

My advise has always been try and get on with an established working soundman. You can not learn the skills as you go; there are too many traps both technically and politically to avoid without watching from a safe place for a (maybe years) while.

You didn't say where you live, but there are areas of the country where this work gets done on a large scale; Georgia, New Mexico, Louisiana to name a few current places. It will be easier to find work there, and to get into the local union (almost always required to work at a certain level) because local crews are stretched thin when the work load gets big. In the smaller markets (and that doesn't necessarily mean small cities but maybe cities in states that aren't offering large rebates to productions,) it will be harder to find a community of production sound personnel to connect with but maybe reaching out to some in other cities where work is more plentiful may net you a result.

Check out John Coffey's little piece on being a Sound Utility; usually the first step toward a money-making career.

Top 20 Utility Person Checklist — Sound & Picture

FWIW, lots of people go out there every year and make a go of it without doing it the old fashion way. Some succeed. But lots of folks drop thousands of dollars into gear that isn't right, doesn't work, etc. and find themselves with a big debt and no paying work.

Just my $.02. I'm sure you will hear from others who think this advise is all poppycock. What do I know?

D.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by A.Dot

Hey Guys,

I'm interested in getting into the world of freelance Production Sound and wondering firstly, what gear do I need?

Secondly, How do I get my foot in the door?

thanks!

customers aka clients

whatever gear does the job

advertise
network

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

"...try and get on with an established working soundman...

Part of the gig is being able to fix the gear out in the middle of nowhere.

[A.Dot]

Thanks for the replies.

Well, I was looking into something small to start with. I see ads on Craigslist and other places that are looking for people with equipment that can record budget movies/commercials/pilots..

I see a couple of requests for people with wireless lavs..

What other gear do I need?

btw, im in NYC

[Rolo 46]

Third man is a great place to start
Filmschool also helps broaden the education
Nowadays multiskilling is vital
Can you operate a 2nd camera and edit pix/sound ?.
Dont buy kit,dryhire or work for the hire co.

In my day in the BBC, a 2nd boom op was vital for the very dense dialog driven material we shot.
The 2nd boom did out of vision dialog,which was more taxing than in vision,and more appreciated by the editors.

[Matti]

long take - Damasonico boom operator - YouTube

Learn to do this and you'll be fine

Matti

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by A.Dot

.... I see ads on Craigslist and other places that are looking for people with equipment that can record budget movies/commercials/pilots...

What they aren't looking for is rank beginners. Operating the gear is maybe 1% of the job at most.

I have over 40 years of major label recording experience and I am not qualified to do production mixing. I know this because I have also worked on features as an assistant sound editor.

[Rolo 46]

Originally Posted by Matti

long take - Damasonico boom operator - YouTube

Learn to do this and you'll be fine

Matti

I used to do 8-10 minute takes on a MKH 816 +Rycote basket and HiWind cover on a Panamic 16' hand held boom during my boom op days.
That sorted the men from the boys
I loved those 70's long takes with complex moves.
For interiors we used MKH406 with a favouring device,which enabled very fast favours via a rack and pinion gear train.
Natural perspective,what ever happened to it?

I also trialed a boom harness with a counterweight and arm support,excellent for long running shots,but always last in the tea queue.

[tourtelot]

Yeah, booming is a whole different kettle of fish. God bless the good ones, God keep me from hiring the bad ones and as God is my witness, I am one of the bad ones That's why I mix.

It's, I think, the second hardest job on the set, next to the focus puller and for a lot of the same reasons.

D.

[Jaymz]

Originally Posted by Matti

long take - Damasonico boom operator - YouTube

Learn to do this and you'll be fine

Matti

Godlike...

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by A.Dot

Hey Guys,

I'm interested in getting into the world of freelance Production Sound and wondering firstly, what gear do I need?

Secondly, How do I get my foot in the door?

thanks!

Gear that you need:
- education
- experience
- networking skills

After having garnered the above, go work in a renting facility and wait until someone comes along who needs an assistant in your field of interest. This is one of the most effective ways to get into that world.

[aracu]

There are some pretty funny adds on Craigslist for boom ops, like "no experience necessary, we can teach you..."

[Liquid360]

How do you guys minimize the room tone with a boom mic? I tried a shotgun mic before, and it was unusable, I had to switch to a lapel mic to complete the job.

Originally Posted by Matti
long take - Damasonico boom operator - YouTube

Learn to do this and you'll be fine

Run around and chase everyone?

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by Liquid360

How do you guys minimize the room tone with a boom mic? I tried an "Azden" shotgun mic before, and it was unusable, I had to switch to a lapel mic to complete the job.

Room tone is part of the beauty of an overhead mic. It's what makes the dialog sound real and have the sound perspective that matches the shot. Unfortunately, the shooting style of the jobs I work on, mostly dramatic television, use multiple cameras and the trend toward "wide and tight" allows me to effectively use the overhead less and less. Sad.

But a good boomman will play the frame line to get the mic as close to the actor as s/he can without dipping into the frame. Part of why the job takes so much skill. The boomman needs to know lens sizes and what the lens sees at different distances, needs to watch not only the actor but the camera to know when the frame tilts and pans, as well as memorizing the entire pages for the day so s/he can make certain the mic is over the correct actor before they start to speak. Add to this, ad libs, and unannounced and unrehearsed camera move changes, dolly/stedicam movement, and getting run into by other crew members or extras. Hard!

And more, my boomman runs the set for my department and serves as the ears and mouth of the department in any goings-on on the set, so s/he has to be calm, cool and collected as s/he advocates for getting the best sound while EVERYBODY else is concerned with the picture.

I guess what I am saying, and not knowing your exact situation, is that it takes a skilled operator to allow the department a chance at getting the sound from overhead. Barring having that skilled person on the mic end, I have been forced into using body mics to make certain that I capture all the words; a really unhappy situation for me.

Also, sometimes you just can't get over the background noise or one of the cameras is too wide and pushes the overhead too far away from the actors and you will be forced into using body mics. Some of the skills that I allude to include being able and willing to fight for the sound and battle for the right to do our best job, all the while avoiding stepping on the toes of the others engaged in making the same movie; negotiating, cajoling, begging, laughing and remembering where in the food-chain the sound department sits.

That's the reason that it is so hard to just buy the gear and go to work. Unless you have seen these skills practiced on a real set, those pitfalls will eat your lunch. A person who tries that path will learn all the lessons eventually, maybe, but it will be a slow and painful (as well as financially unrewarded) journey. I like to say, no need to reinvent the wheel. Everything I know and use in a typical day has been stolen from a soundman (or three) with way more skills than I will ever have, over many years, and then refined by me to work in the specific situation that I find myself working in.

Also, and not trying to be snide, but an Azden shotgun may have so many electro-mechanical issues that it may not be possible to get the sound you need with that tool. Typically, the pros use very high-end mics from Sanken, Schoeps, Sennheiser and the like to achieve the quality of sound demanded by any but the lowest budget project. Good mics, unlike most of the rest of the production sound equipment package are a good investment. Save you pennies

D.

[Liquid360]

Thanks.

Most of what you said I already suspected, like great mics and lots of practice. I'm a professional synth guy, not a sound for picture guy. I get hired to do interviews for websites sometimes, and with stationary cameras and a subject not moving around the set, I found the whole "boom mic" thing unnecessary.

[tourtelot]

A nice mic taped to a c-stand arm will sound better than a $150 lav clipped to someone's chest.

D.

[Liquid360]

A nice mic taped to a c-stand arm will sound better than a $150 lav clipped to someone's chest.

Really?

[tourtelot]

Well, I guess that WAS a rather broad statement. Of course it all depends on the environment in which you are shooting, and the choice between an overhead and a lav would be made on the day taking all things into consideration, but. . .

Corporate interview in someone's office, air con on low, tight single. I'd go with a boom mic.

Sorry if I was a bit glib.

D.

[aracu]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

And more, my boomman runs the set for my department and serves as the ears and mouth of the department in any goings-on on the set, so s/he has to be calm, cool and collected as s/he advocates for getting the best sound while EVERYBODY else is concerned with the picture.

I guess what I am saying, and not knowing your exact situation, is that it takes a skilled operator to allow the department a chance at getting the sound from overhead. Barring having that skilled person on the mic end, I have been forced into using body mics to make certain that I capture all the words; a really unhappy situation for me.

Also, sometimes you just can't get over the background noise or one of the cameras is too wide and pushes the overhead too far away from the actors and you will be forced into using body mics. Some of the skills that I allude to include being able and willing to fight for the sound and battle for the right to do our best job, all the while avoiding stepping on the toes of the others engaged in making the same movie; negotiating, cajoling, begging, laughing and remembering where in the food-chain the sound department sits.

This presents a very realistic picture. No matter what the gear and skills
involved, the sound person(s) are often in a difficult position on a
traditional film shoot. Many or most people involved with film making will
stress the importance of sound, but only a few will while they are actually
shooting a film.

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by A.Dot

Hey Guys,

I'm interested in getting into the world of freelance Production Sound and wondering firstly, what gear do I need?

Secondly, How do I get my foot in the door?

thanks!

Your priority list should actually be vice versa.

To get a foot in the door you need experience and a CV. With an empty CV (in production sound) no one is going to hire you. Spend a couple of years as a cable guy then as a boom op. Learn the social skills needed to survive on set and how to use the gear in the real situation.

AFTER all that is done you have a foot in the door because you made yourself a name and you´re not a nobody with a bunch of gear.

It´s a common misconception in both post and production to start a business by buying a bunch of gear then assume that clients will come to your door because you have the gear.

More simply put: Buying a boom-pole won´t make you a boom operator.

[RichTopham]

It's great that you are checking into the professional audio business. Check out my company in NYC. Stop by and talk with us. We are one of largest professional audio companies for film and tv. I give at least one FREE workshop a month on education in film and tv sound. I hire interns all the time to give them an inside look at the professional sound industry and even give new students 25% off all rentals of your gear to help you get started. Give me a call! Pro-Sound.com ~ Professional Sound Services 212-586-1033

[Liquid360]

Well, I guess that WAS a rather broad statement. Of course it all depends on the environment in which you are shooting, and the choice between an overhead and a lav would be made on the day taking all things into consideration, but. . .

Corporate interview in someone's office, air con on low, tight single. I'd go with a boom mic.

Sorry if I was a bit glib.

What mic would you use, and at what distance does it sound best? I just don't see how you can beat a wireless lapel mic in that situation.

[tourtelot]

Perhaps some good hypercardiod six inches over the top of the on-camera talent's head

Sennheiser MKH50 is my go-to mic right now but lots of guys use Schoeps CMC641. There are some new Sennheiser mics out recently, the 8000 series I think, also some few use Neumanns like the KMR81. It will make your lav sound awful assuming that the recording space is pretty good acoustically. Lavs, in my opinion sound pretty awful most of the time, but we get forced to use them more than most mixers would like. Need a little more reach? I go with Sanken CS3e mics; some others use Sennheiser MKH60, maybe MKH70, maybe Neumann KMR82. Some love the Schoeps CMIT. All these mics are high-end and will set you back some big bucks but good carpenters don't buy cheap hammers.

I sometimes ask the producer when I get told to "lav 'em up" if they would rather I use a $2000+ mic or a $200 mic and then bury it in the actor's clothing. Sometimes, they even get it.

And it's all part of the experience about when to bail out of the overhead and go to a lav because it will in some situations sound better.

I do remember the days when my boomman would overhead a Sennheiser 816 on wide-ish exterior setups and it would sound wonderful. It does take an extraordinarily talented operator to handle such a mic, pin-point control was necessary because of the tight, tight directional pattern. Any off-axis and the wonderful sound would go to hell. And even more so with it in a full Rycote zeppelin with a fuzzy, but she could do it. Most can not, and I don't own any of those mics any more. Not to say that they weren't a great tool.

D.

[aracu]

If the signal is not clipping, or so extremely low as to effect the sound
quality, taking into considering the amount of direct and ambient sound
on a film location isn't it more desirable to mix in post in a quiet space?

[Rolo 46]

That would be merely harvesting material,any machine and monkey could do that.
TV is going that way,lets hope Movies don't.

Recording dialog and fx can be extremely rewarding on some occasions,deeply frustrating on others.
It is a battle ,but the best can turn in the most amazing results in adverse and quite hopeless locations.

Harvesting crappy electrets hidden deep in costumes can be done,but needs noise reduction and heavy eq,something not to be commended.
They can never equal an open Mic on a boom.
Unfortunately there is a new breed of dialog editor who thinks booms are nerdy hifi perfectionism and prefers the close dead sound of a buried lavalier.....
Radios are perplexing,they can be brilliant (Kings Speech and Children of Men) but they are far from fit and forget.
They need a man to coordinate and apply on big rigs
Some artists love em others hate em
Tweaking high priced talent on set can be intimidating
A boom has no such problems,unless you bang them on the head ,with a chunky rig when they unexpectedly stand,as I did in my first days with a Westrex Ribbon mic that weighed 3lbs.

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

unless you bang them on the head ,with a chunky rig when they unexpectedly stand,as I did in my first days with a Westrex Ribbon mic that weighed 3lbs.

Funny! When I first started booming (for a soundman that now has an Oscar on his mantel) on the silly little short films we all do when we start, I thought it was a great idea to lightly touch the actor on the head with the pop screen to really tell how far away they were (!). That was before I learned that I have no depth perception; my eyes work independently of each other. Always have always will. Maybe not the only reason, but a major reason that I am a mixer and not a boomman

D.