live sound & compression

[jgrif08]

My roomates band wants me to bring a couple compressors to their show tonight. Is compression something that is commonly used for live applications? These guys have a tendency to think that the more crap is in the signal chain the better... period. I've tried to convince them that keeping things simple has its merits as well. Any advice?

[mischultz]

Originally Posted by jgrif08

My roomates band wants me to bring a couple compressors to their show tonight. Is compression something that is commonly used for live applications? These guys have a tendency to think that the more crap is in the signal chain the better... period. I've tried to convince them that keeping things simple has its merits as well. Any advice?

Short answer is yes, but like anything, it depends on the execution. If you can be subtle and bring the vocal forward or keep the kick or bass in line, you've done them a favor.

Michael

[zkaudio]

at big venues, I crush teh shit outta drums (not cymbals) then buss em sep from the whole mix (not unlike recording) I also use it on bass if the bass amp isn't already getting squashed. Keeping the kick powerful really adds to a live performance, it's one of those things that always seems to diminish at larger venues... namely due to speaker preservation :P

[TyRip]

Having them as an option never hurts, but the main thing to remember is to simply not use them if they don't sound good on the source.

I find a clean comp most useful for vocals, as it seems impossible for me to find someone with great mic technique. Vocalists seem to over do it by pulling a foot away from the mic and losing too much signal or they just don't have any concept of mic technique/control at all.

Most of the people I work with just eat the mic the entire performance, so I like a clean comp with a high threshold (just hitting the loudest parts) and med-high ratio on vocals.

I used to always want some compression on kick and snare at least, but recently I am realizing how much more alive and kickin' a good drummer sounds with no compression at all. As long as he/she is good and even, I love it.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by TyRip

Having them as an option never hurts, but the main thing to remember is to simply not use them if they don't sound good on the source.

I find a clean comp most useful for vocals, as it seems impossible for me to find someone with great mic technique. Vocalists seem to over do it by pulling a foot away from the mic and losing too much signal or they just don't have any concept of mic technique/control at all.

Most of the people I work with just eat the mic the entire performance, so I like a clean comp with a high threshold (just hitting the loudest parts) and med-high ratio on vocals.

I used to always want some compression on kick and snare at least, but recently I am realizing how much more alive and kickin' a good drummer sounds with no compression at all. As long as he/she is good and even, I love it.

Canton Ohio in da house! I grew up therethumbsup ok back on topic Comp/limiters are your friends on vocalist live..especially from a protection of your ears and system point of view... with rock/Punk or any screamy music. With drums I used to create a sub and smash that and blend in to taste. But of course the venue I used to work at only had two comps..and they both sucked.

[zkaudio]

Originally Posted by TyRip

Having them as an option never hurts, but the main thing to remember is to simply not use them if they don't sound good on the source.

I find a clean comp most useful for vocals, as it seems impossible for me to find someone with great mic technique. Vocalists seem to over do it by pulling a foot away from the mic and losing too much signal or they just don't have any concept of mic technique/control at all.

Most of the people I work with just eat the mic the entire performance, so I like a clean comp with a high threshold (just hitting the loudest parts) and med-high ratio on vocals.

I used to always want some compression on kick and snare at least, but recently I am realizing how much more alive and kickin' a good drummer sounds with no compression at all. As long as he/she is good and even, I love it.

lol... i've NEVER done sound for or recorded a "good" drummer. EVER. lol.

[tINY]

The attack and release controls are crucial for drums and acc guitar.

Good singers that know mic technique and are used to singing live usually don't need much.

Don't bother with the E-Guitar cabs.....



-tINY

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by tINY

Good singers that know mic technique and are used to singing live usually don't need much.



-tINY

the only thing more rare then a good drummer..a good singer...I like limiters on singers so when they decide to scream at the top of their lungs after whispering into the mic the entire set they don't blow the tweeters and your ears..

[aussie_techie]

for most pop/rock/punk/metal compressor are essential but like always you need the right tool for the right job
here the fun part, leave it all to the house mixer. assuming they arnt just hiring a knob twiddler for peanuts they will know their gear and the venue and how to deal with whatever comes up. it is not the same mixing live as in the studio, leave it to the guy who is getting paid.

[Remoteness]

Like Michael said, "...it depends on the execution."

[Dog_Chao_Chao]

A bit late but still curious. How about the stereo bus? how hard do you hit it live? Ive been asked to start doing some live gigs but im more of a studio guy...

also, do you gate drums live? Apart from the drum bus crushing, do you compress individually too?


ive been asked to live engineer a typical rock band, a bit like foo fighters or something...i really dont know how much of my studio experience i can use there.

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by Dog_Chao_Chao

A bit late but still curious. How about the stereo bus? how hard do you hit it live? Ive been asked to start doing some live gigs but im more of a studio guy...

also, do you gate drums live? Apart from the drum bus crushing, do you compress individually too?


ive been asked to live engineer a typical rock band, a bit like foo fighters or something...i really dont know how much of my studio experience i can use there.

The "right" answer is, "It depends." Compressing the stereo bus - Do you have a reason to do so? Sometimes limiters are placed on the main mix, but that's usually so guest engineers don't blow up the sound co's rig. Drum processing - Do the drums need gates? It would be so much easier (and sound better) if the drums are tuned properly, but quite often you get those toms that ring for days. As far as compression, just use your ears. I sometimes compress the snare, rarely do I compress the whole kit. Unless that's the desired sound...

Just use your ears. If you know what a gate and a compressor does then you'll know when to use them.

[valleysound]

I started as live sound then expanded to live recording. In my live rack I have 2 verbs, a delay, 8 channels compression, 8 channels of gating. I always gate the kick and toms unless it is jazz or some dynamic softer stuff. Compressing the snare brings out different sounds depending on the attack and release times just like in a studio, but not always necessary to use compression. I've got the vocals on DBX 1066 comps, at the very least they just take off the peaks, or if the singer has poor technique, I slam it more. I still ride the fader a lot even with compression on the vocals. Keyboards can be very dynamic, so they have a compressor inserted, but the ammount varies by how much and how well the keyboard rides the volume.

[freestyle tromb]

Originally Posted by Dog_Chao_Chao

A bit late but still curious. How about the stereo bus? how hard do you hit it live? Ive been asked to start doing some live gigs but im more of a studio guy...

also, do you gate drums live? Apart from the drum bus crushing, do you compress individually too?


ive been asked to live engineer a typical rock band, a bit like foo fighters or something...i really dont know how much of my studio experience i can use there.

oh, i never use gates! i find it much easier and better-sounding to just go through and edit the waveform by hand to remove any extraneous noise-

oops! sorry. wrong forum.

[RobZ]

Originally Posted by jgrif08

My roomates band wants me to bring a couple compressors to their show tonight. Is compression something that is commonly used for live applications? These guys have a tendency to think that the more crap is in the signal chain the better... period. I've tried to convince them that keeping things simple has its merits as well. Any advice?

Obviously live and studio mixing are different. But if used properly compression can play a role in creating punch and tone just as in the studio. I use an overstayer fet comp on kick and snare (would prefer to strap in across the drum buss if console permits), I use PCB6As, one on bass, one on main vocal. I also have a RNLA I use for sax, guitar, keys...or whatever seems best served. I run the whole mix through an overstayer stereo dynamics processor (VCA comp).

Most people seem to think comps in live application are only for amplitude control and system protection; Not so. I've been able to achieve tighter, punchier, and more detailed live mixes with these tools. Mixes I simply could not achieve without them. Obviously jazz, traditional blues, and other highly organic/dynamic sources require different approaches in regards to dynamic control.

You can't fix bad mic placement, poor technique, or generally crappy tone...all things you encounter live...but when you have a good source...you sure shouldn't hesitate to use compression creatively in live settings.

Big thanks to companies like Overstayer and FMR Audio for making affordable magic boxes, I can have access to gear now that I could only dream of when I first started mixing live.

[edva]

Always comp on bass, any source with excessive dynamics, and stereo comp on mix (2-bus). Does it need it? Well, it always helps to be able to make it sound better, so, yes, it needs it. Usually low ratios, usually med to slow attacks, usually med to fast releases, usually only a few db GR.

[ghellquist]

Just remember that:
- it is easy to destroy a good sound with the wrong treatment
- it is impossible to make a bad sound good regardless of the treatment

Basically, start out by going light on all treatment and understand when it is time to stop. Middle of the concert is not the place to understanf that there is to much of anything.

Gunnar

[blindjoni]

Originally Posted by jgrif08

My roomates band wants me to bring a couple compressors to their show tonight. Is compression something that is commonly used for live applications? These guys have a tendency to think that the more crap is in the signal chain the better... period. I've tried to convince them that keeping things simple has its merits as well. Any advice?

Keeping things simple is fine for some music styles... Like Bluegrass or other acoustic styles. If its a rock band, the parts are usually compressed all over the place. If you are gonna help and don't know how to compress rock band instruments... Learn how it's done. I always say...
Less is only more if... You have more... Understand more...and consciously choose to use less to better fit the performance.
If something is professionally done with certain methods, doing nothing is probably not going to yield better results.