Gefell UM 75 vs. Horch RM2J - the final decision

[mr.gefell]

looks like Ivo has found the fountain of youth

the Horch sounds great...get a pair

[ISedlacek]

To conclude my sharing, I must say that I am very happy that after a long search I have finally found my dream vocal microphone ... It sounds exactly as I always dreamed and imagined my vocal microphone should sound .... and even better

Thank you "Mr.Horch" ! It is simply fabulous ... I must start a vocal career soon

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by mr.gefell

the Horch sounds great...get a pair

The only thing I am extremely afraid to try is how Horch sounds on instruments ...

No, I will not try . No no no ...

I don´t want to live under a bridge

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

The only thing I am extremely afraid to try is how Horch sounds on instruments ...

No, I will not try . No no no ...

I don´t want to live under a bridge

congrats Ivo!

anyways just looking at the funky miniature tube of the Horch..makes me want to buy one

[D.T. Jambor]

EF86 vs. EF732



Exchange the EF86 in the UM75 with a EF732.
The sound is more beautifully, faster and larger.

Dirk T. Jambor

[squeegybug]

Ivo, congratulations. What a nice recording, that Horch is indeed the mic for your music.

And it is so flexible... I liked the strong presence of the Extreme mode on the first dynamic songs with Mr Carloff, and also with Ms Country Sister. On the "lullaby" of the later posts of male singer I preferred the hypercardioid linear setting. Very emotional reproduction from that setting. Second choice was the linear cardioid. Poor Gefell is not in the same species here.

Well, let's hear Little Ivo's songs! I think a duet with him and Mrs Ivo would be excellent.


Steve

[kissingonstilts]

The Horch has more personality, dimension, and beauty. I had a Gefell UM92.1 and a UM900 - both fine mics, but not interesting enough for me. I've been seeking something like the Horch. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I do wish the Horch were more attractive to look at - to my sensibilities the matte black body is mis-matched to how it sounds.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by kissingonstilts

I do wish the Horch were more attractive to look at - to my sensibilities the matte black body is mis-matched to how it sounds.

Well, I feel that Horch is quite attractive to look at. It is very HUGE and with the light on, it looks very impressive. And it seems to be extremely well built. Also the secondary things show that it was made and cared of with a full heart: the beautiful wooden box with an impressive design inside. You feel you store a rare gem ...

I have three complaints so far - the switch button between the modes is quite uncomfortable (you have to use a pen or a small screwdriver to change it). The second thing is a bit short cable - just 4m.
OK, but these are minor things.
The relatively strongest complaint concerns the power supply - it has again that terrible disease I am quite alergic on: producing a physical transformer noise. Slight, but still ... I really wonder - is it not possible to make these things dead silent with today´s technology ? I would not expect something like that with this top end microphone ... especially when you cannot move it further from the supply than the cable length. I would hate to put some pillows or blankets on it ... I will try to consult it with the manufacturer ...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

And it is so flexible... I liked the strong presence of the Extreme mode on the first dynamic songs with Mr Carloff, and also with Ms Country Sister. On the "lullaby" of the later posts of male singer I preferred the hypercardioid linear setting. Very emotional reproduction from that setting. Second choice was the linear cardioid.

Yes, in the beginning I was quite attracted to the red extreme mode, but later found that the linear mode (with its endless settings) is great too, offering quite a different voice rendering. Wide cardioid and hypercardiod are really nice ... This universal flexibility fascinates me a lot. It is like having several different microphones in one

[matucha]

transformer noise > uf... I hate my notebook powersupply, it makes so weird HF noises related to what the notebook is doing (HDD, graphics...). Is it this kind of noise?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by matucha

transformer noise > uf... I hate my notebook powersupply, it makes so weird HF noises related to what the notebook is doing (HDD, graphics...). Is it this kind of noise?

No, it is a constant unchanging sound, that typical slight transformer hum, kind of a humming middle pitch tone, not really loud, but in a total silence you can hear it ... From 4 meters it will be probably not audible to the microphone (hopefully). But if it is not there, it would be much better

BTW: I have owned quite a few laptops but never noticed any power supply noise there ...

[Vari-Mu]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Yes, it is ... It there another model which does not have that ?

Apparently so, since mine is not continuously variable. I would imagine that if I get them to mod my power supply it would become so. It's a couple of years old so there must have
been a change to the feature set. The original RM2 also has continuously variable patterns in linear mode.

On the upside my power supply is totally silent.


Cheers


Vari-Mu

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Vari-Mu

Apparently so, since mine is not continuously variable. I would imagine that if I get them to mod my power supply it would become so. It's a couple of years old so there must have
been a change to the feature set. The original RM2 also has continuously variable patterns in linear mode.

Well, it is not 100% continuous, there is actually a number of small stop points on the way (but there are plenty of them, I have not counted them ...)

Originally Posted by Vari-Mu

On the upside my power supply is totally silent.

Even if you put your ear close to it ?

[ISedlacek]

Could not resist to post this awfully slutty picture

[ISedlacek]

Here are two short interesting vocal samples. The man who bought both my Origins was trying them quite extensively on his vocals.
Just before he left, I had an idea to let him sing into Pendulum too ...

I think the difference is quite interesting end educative
(although be careful about the volume levels - the same phrases were not sung in exactly the same volume, so they are not really 100% matched).


MALE VOCAL

Millennia tube preamp (on Origin)
vs
Pendulum MDP-1

Horch RM2J

Listen

How do you feel about these two ?

[bloodstone]

Originally Posted by Ollie

These are only straight vocal tests. Listen to each of these mics inside a track. After listening to the mics in the context of a track, I would be in hearing your perceptions.

I have to agree with the above. But I did like the Horch extreme mode best. Nice George Gershwin! The MG might cut through a mix better.

[bloodstone]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Here is a local "country sister", just rushed from the driving school, so a bit "restless", but yet:

Gefell UM75

Horch

BTW we did not use pop-screens, so there are some "pops" there, sorry ...
(used a bit of PCM91 vocal plate)

I preferred the MG on the female voice. FWIW

[bloodstone]

Originally Posted by D.T. Jambor

Question?
The sound of the Horch is finer, more broadly and more largely.
The sound of the UM75 is less noble.
The Horch sounds alone "better" - the UM75 in mix better, or?

Gefell UM75 in mix

Chris Jones † 13. September 2005 in Northeim, Deutschland

Dirk T. Jambor

Nice recording. Maybe the UM75 is better in a mix, but at any rate it's darn good. A lot of that low mid presence in a voice isn't really necessary in the context of a mix.
Maybe the "problem" with the UM75 is they didn't try to update it's sound and were too true to the original design?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by bloodstone

I have to agree with the above. But I did like the Horch extreme mode best. Nice George Gershwin! The MG might cut through a mix better.

Well, thinking in terms of "mix" may be true in some standard rock/pop production. But not everybody is doing exactly that ... So the pure vocal sound as such is more important sometimes.
Second - a nice, present big body shines in mixes always ... like U47 - and Horch is basically nothing else than U47 ... (in modern cloth)
Third - it is always much better and easier to cut something from the sound (if needed) than to add (if missed) ....

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Here are two short interesting vocal samples. The man who bought both my Origins was trying them quite extensively on his vocals.
Just before he left, I had an idea to let him sing into Pendulum too ...

I think the difference is quite interesting end educative
(although be careful about the volume levels - the same phrases were not sung in exactly the same volume, so they are not really 100% matched).


MALE VOCAL

Millennia tube preamp (on Origin)
vs
Pendulum MDP-1

Horch RM2J
Listen

How do you feel about these two ?

Sample with the Millennia sounds a little thinner. Brighter than the Pendulum sample.
Sample with the Pendulum sounds warmer, smoother and more in your face.

I imagine a track and vocalist would determine which one to use but by itself I prefer the Pendulum.

[jdunn]

I see two Horch's in that picture. Did you buy another one?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by jdunn

I see two Horch's in that picture. Did you buy another one?

Not really ... Just the demo piece and my new mic met here for few days ... So a nice party

But there was quite an interesting discovery.For fun I tried whether my new mic sounds as good as the demo one. And somehow could not help - the new one seemed to sound better ... more clear and open in the whole spectrum. Of course, I was thinking it was just some funny illusion , but could not help ...
So I enquired with the manufacturer and was told that indeed they are now using a different Telefunken tube with lower noise, longer life and bigger resolution ... (before there were Russian tubes there).
So - very nice upgrade ... From a great sound to yet better sound

[Plush]

Hello Ivo,

Congratulations on finding HORCH!

It is a very valuable microphone for capturing the emotion of music.

Please keep us posted.

Best from Chicago,

PlushSonic

[huarez]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Here are two short interesting vocal samples. The man who bought both my Origins was trying them quite extensively on his vocals.
Just before he left, I had an idea to let him sing into Pendulum too ...

I think the difference is quite interesting end educative
(although be careful about the volume levels - the same phrases were not sung in exactly the same volume, so they are not really 100% matched).


MALE VOCAL

Millennia tube preamp (on Origin)
vs
Pendulum MDP-1

Horch RM2J


Listen

How do you feel about these two ?

The Millenia sounds more realistic but therefor a little sharper than the pendulum, who for my taste is lacking of Top End a bit

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by huarez

The Millenia sounds more realistic but therefor a little sharper than the pendulum, who for my taste is lacking of Top End a bit

I am not so sure about it. I was there with the singer. He does not sound that sharp in reality ... Anyway - adding a bit air if needed, is quite easy. Adding that full, smooth, emotional, in your face body (Pendulum) is impossible ...
I personally much prefer Pendulum sound ...
And also - I don´t think that "realistic" is a prime concern when recording vocals ...

[lorenzo]

Originally Posted by D.T. Jambor

Question?
The sound of the Horch is finer, more broadly and more largely.
The sound of the UM75 is less noble.
The Horch sounds alone "better" - the UM75 in mix better, or?

Gefell UM75 in mix

Chris Jones † 13. September 2005 in Northeim, Deutschland

Dirk T. Jambor

Dirk,

what preamp and compressor were used for this track ?

thanks

[syra]

Originally Posted by D.T. Jambor

Question?
The sound of the Horch is finer, more broadly and more largely.
The sound of the UM75 is less noble.
The Horch sounds alone "better" - the UM75 in mix better, or?

Gefell UM75 in mix

Chris Jones † 13. September 2005 in Northeim, Deutschland

Dirk T. Jambor

I've been looking for that track everywhere but can't find s**t

...and there seem to be about 10 Chris Jones's...

Does anyone know the specific album that has that track?

[T.RayBullard]

my question is...how the blue hell does a microphone sound "noble" or "interesting"

it is a mechanism to capture sound. the source is what is interesting or not..

[kissingonstilts]

To T Ray - with deepest respect, your question belies the likely reality that any answer born from one that has experienced a microphone (rig) and described it as noble, would not satisfy you. These kinds of subjective perspectives are the only things that interest me, and words such as 'noble' are precisely the descriptives I look for when querying another's perspective/experience. For me, beauty is a deep revelation of the Divine, and this is one of the forces alive in music that makes it so vital to human beings. Terms such as noble, generous, spacious, glowing, ebullient are examples of words that challenge the limitations of language when describing music (and gear). By the way, I've often related to your perspectives in your posts and have enjoyed your wisdom-born-of-experience. Have you ever tried the Horch mics? You seem to like the Gefells - I had several, but they didn't have enough personality for me (had the UM92.1, and the UM-900) - they were very nice, but they didn't hold my interest. What is it about them that has worked for you? Thanks.

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by kissingonstilts

Have you ever tried the Horch mics?

Yes, i have at my disposal the RM2J since two months ago now.. I used it a LOT on my wifes voice(I will post clips next week) and a bit on mine, and for some voice over tests. It sounded good, but it didnt grab me and say "YES"!!!. I have a SPAUdio u87 that I am very fond of, a Gefell 92.1 and I am currently saving up my money for a u67 and um900. Those mics are everything I want and need.

they were very nice, but they didn't hold my interest. What is it about them that has worked for you? Thanks.

What about them works for me???They sound great. They stay out of the way, dont color the signal too much, arent "gimmicky",(ah, that sounds like a neve!! "the transformers make everything so pretty" "vintage sound in a modern design" )the quality control is great, and the company is established. I feel that the majority of the personality comes from the music, so mainly I want tools that stay out of the way and let me and the musicians do the work. Gefell never dissapoints.