CM3 - really THAT good?

[boojum]

Originally Posted by fry_

Hey

This is my first post on GS. Thank to helpful people from this 'Remote' forum I found cm3s and although I have them for very short time I'm very happy with them. I almost decided to buy a new DPA 2006 pair but than I noticed these little modest looking mics ;-)
For ppl interested I'd like to share my recent live recording of Haydn Symphony 49 (excerpt). What is important, it was first performance of this ensemble, no conductor, on historical instruments. Too long (high) church reverb.
Cheers
Fry

Good one! Those CM3's are so good, especially considering the price.

[fry_]

Hey

Thanks for your kind opinions. Mics were in NOS setup, around 4m high. Musicians were in a half circle, form the left: 2 Vlns (one is a leader, must be clearly visible to the rest), 2 Ob, Vla, Bsn, Vc, DB, 2 Hrns, 2 2nd Vlns. As you can see it is little out of balance between strings and woods+brass. Additionally 2nd Vlns on the right project sound not exactly in direction I'd like to ;-) If it wouldn't be live (visuals important) I'd put 2nd Vlns simply higher to balance 1st and 2nd Vlns.
Cheers!

[Empiria]

Good job, Fry.

[AlexK]

These mics seem amazing! Gonna order myself a pair right this minute I think!

[dwojr]

My CM3s should be arriving today, just in time for my gig tonight. I'm excited to check them out. They should be used ORTF and not XY is that correct?

thanks

[Empiria]

They have wider polar pattern than a typical cardioid micrphone. IMO, not as wide as Schoeps MK21 but still too wide for XY.

I use them in 36cm AB. Sometimes it works better that ORTF or its variations.

[jbjoubaud]

I'm wondering if anybody has ever compared a pair of cm3 to a pair of oktavamod on a choir ?

I was set on buying a pair a while back but they were backordered back then and a lot happened since. I'm considering them again but I like my oktavamod and I wonder if I would gain anything by adding the cm3 to my mic locker.

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by jbjoubaud

I'm wondering if anybody has ever compared a pair of cm3 to a pair of oktavamod on a choir ?

I was set on buying a pair a while back but they were backordered back then and a lot happened since. I'm considering them again but I like my oktavamod and I wonder if I would gain anything by adding the cm3 to my mic locker.

Been lurking on this thread. Time to speak up: I recently ordered a pair from No-Hype (great dealing with J-P btw). Used them right away on a choir in a hall with a never-ending verb. I loved the results as did the choir. I did a sort of Faulkner Phase array affair with cm3's as AB (50cm) and my 4050's in figure 8 spaced 20cm. Mixed in the 4050's a bit to give a little 'articulation' (to counter the diffuse sound of the cm3 AB in a extra-long-verb hall). Will try to post a sample soon....but very happy. A no-brainer purchase.

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by jbjoubaud

I'm wondering if anybody has ever compared a pair of cm3 to a pair of oktavamod on a choir ?

I did not. I did on piano with stock Oktava bought from oktavaonline in 2007. At some point, Oktava would have modified their electronics similarly to modded models. I don't know when.

[dwojr]

My first recording with the CM3 is very impressive. They have great bass, much more than my Rode NT4. Just great sound all around. Definitely a great deal for the money.

[jbjoubaud]

Thanks for the link Didier. I did check that thread a while back. I thought that both mic sounded good, but I liked the schoeps even more.

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

Been lurking on this thread. Time to speak up: I recently ordered a pair from No-Hype (great dealing with J-P btw). Used them right away on a choir in a hall with a never-ending verb. I loved the results as did the choir. I did a sort of Faulkner Phase array affair with cm3's as AB (50cm) and my 4050's in figure 8 spaced 20cm. Mixed in the 4050's a bit to give a little 'articulation' (to counter the diffuse sound of the cm3 AB in a extra-long-verb hall). Will try to post a sample soon....but very happy. A no-brainer purchase.

Okay, here's an example of what was achieved with the above configuration:



Besides the final dither and gain adjusting, the only processing on this is a gentle hi shelf rolling down from around 200hz all the way up, by a few decibels on a very wide curve....to compensate a bit for proximity effect. No extra reverb. What you hear is about 90% cm3 and 10% 4050.

[jbjoubaud]

sounds great Unqlenol !
Would you happen to have a picture of the setup ?

[2manyrocks]

Sorry about this jump--are the factory shockmounts pretty much needed for the CM3 or not so much? You guys have me thinking about getting some of these, and I'd rather get what I need in one order.

Another question for those of you using three of the CM3's....could anyone see using pair of CM3 with one CM1 instead?

[king2070lplaya]

Originally Posted by 2manyrocks

Sorry about this jump--are the factory shockmounts pretty much needed for the CM3 or not so much? You guys have me thinking about getting some of these, and I'd rather get what I need in one order.

Another question for those of you using three of the CM3's....could anyone see using pair of CM3 with one CM1 instead?

I don't care much for the shockmounts they sell. I'd go for the aftermarket options (shure, rycote, etc).

[jpgerard]

This raises an interesting point, as the CMEH (Line Audio shockmount) has been out of stock for months and will probably still be for weeks. My question is, would you be prepared to pay the price for a couple of Rycote shocks when ordering CM3's, since the small Rycote costs about 40% of the price of a CM3?

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by jbjoubaud

sounds great Unqlenol !
Would you happen to have a picture of the setup ?

Thank you!

The attached pic should give you the idea.
See the quad array on my DIY bar. Notice the cm3 in their 'donut-like' shocks.
The lower mic stands on either extreme sides held precautionary outriggers which ended up not being used.

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by jpgerard

This raises an interesting point, as the CMEH (Line Audio shockmount) has been out of stock for months and will probably still be for weeks. My question is, would you be prepared to pay the price for a couple of Rycote shocks when ordering CM3's, since the small Rycote costs about 40% of the price of a CM3?

Hi J-P! Howsit goin?

Having bought the cm3's with shocks I can share the following sentiments:

You get great mics at an amazing price. The shocks are necessary and they work. They are cheap. So, for not too much dollar you are sorted out.
You can always go source and buy more expensive shocks. Also it is clever that by making them a separate purchase item, Line Audio don't force you to buy them. The negatives re: the CMEH shocks are that their finish is a little rough (not that I care, they work) and also, you need to handle/support your cabling properly lest your cm3s get pulled down making them point upwards .
These are moot points to me as the kit gets the job done. I velcro or cable tie cables anyway. And at the end of the day I have more money towards other gear. So no complaints here.

[jpgerard]

Thanks for the feedback!

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

you need to handle/support your cabling properly lest your cm3s get pulled down making them point upwards .

In this situation I tend to use the cable clips which come with most mic stands and loop the cable 'backwards' through it. Doesn't look so discrete but does that really matter with a shock mount?

[Bixby]

I didn't care for the look of the CMEH, but the Shure A53m works perfectly.

Originally Posted by jpgerard

This raises an interesting point, as the CMEH (Line Audio shockmount) has been out of stock for months and will probably still be for weeks. My question is, would you be prepared to pay the price for a couple of Rycote shocks when ordering CM3's, since the small Rycote costs about 40% of the price of a CM3?

[SoundTv]

CM3 fit well into the Oktava 012 shockmount (same 20mm diameter).
Massimo

[Pianolando]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

Okay, here's an example of what was achieved with the above configuration:



Besides the final dither and gain adjusting, the only processing on this is a gentle hi shelf rolling down from around 200hz all the way up, by a few decibels on a very wide curve....to compensate a bit for proximity effect. No extra reverb. What you hear is about 90% cm3 and 10% 4050.

That sounds amazing! Props!

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by Pianolando

That sounds amazing! Props!

Thank you. You made my day!

Note from the picture above that the pre's are nothing fancy.

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by AlexK

In this situation I tend to use the cable clips which come with most mic stands and loop the cable 'backwards' through it. Doesn't look so discrete but does that really matter with a shock mount?

Yes, makes sense.
For me personally I don't get on well with cable clips. I lose them and confuse them. I feel with my velcro straps, cable ties and gaffer tape I could take over the world.

[Notsosane]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

Thank you!

The attached pic should give you the idea.
See the quad array on my DIY bar. Notice the cm3 in their 'donut-like' shocks.
The lower mic stands on either extreme sides held precautionary outriggers which ended up not being used.

Sounds great. I have a pair of cm3's, but have not tried them in that config.
I made a similar diy bar with the a/b's @ 67cm and the center ones ortf spacing.
I used the cm3's in the ortf position. Now I need to try them on the outside.

Do you have the cm3's straight on or angled out? Can't quite tell from the pic.
Thanks for posting this and stimulating my brain.

Dave

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

Okay, here's an example of what was achieved with the above configuration:



Besides the final dither and gain adjusting, the only processing on this is a gentle hi shelf rolling down from around 200hz all the way up, by a few decibels on a very wide curve....to compensate a bit for proximity effect. No extra reverb. What you hear is about 90% cm3 and 10% 4050.

Sounds very nice IMHO

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by Notsosane

Sounds great. I have a pair of cm3's, but have not tried them in that config.
I made a similar diy bar with the a/b's @ 67cm and the center ones ortf spacing.
I used the cm3's in the ortf position. Now I need to try them on the outside.

Do you have the cm3's straight on or angled out? Can't quite tell from the pic.
Thanks for posting this and stimulating my brain.

Dave

Thanks for them kind words Dave. Here's the deal: I used the cm3s straight, no angle. I could just as easily have angled slightly.
Maybe next time I will, especially if I get a fancy stereo bar that allows me
to not have to stuff around with alan keys and pliers etc.
I started straight and it sounded good so I moved on.
I don't like fiddling to much on the job clock.

The idea was this: I wanted the warm omni AB sound as the main signal. Thing is, in that particular hall, as I previously mentioned, the reverb carries on almost forever. It's nuts. Could be cool for classical dub music if there were such a thing.
The way I called it was that the CM3's are kinda halfway between a cardioid and an omni.
They have great off axis response and sound fat like an omni. So they are very usable as an AB pair. But at the same time, they reject from behind which helped in this hall to avoid things going all mush on me.
In that hall, moving the stand just 1 or 2 feet back made a MASSIVE difference to the amount of verb in the signal. Blew me away.

I had literally received the mics just a day earlier (in the knick of time).
I had already planned the config in my mind as it seemed to make sense on a technical level and I had been warned about the difficult RT60 of the hall by my guru friend Rob Johnson who is probably reading this right now. Rob has schoeps MK21's which he loves (along with plenty other amazing gear) and it was he who brought my attention to the cm3's saying something like, 'Nolan, if I was starting out, the cm3's would be a no-brainer'.

I plan on trying them in modded ortf at a small concert in a couple of days.
Any tips about modded Ortf are welcome.

Subsequent to the posted choral recording, I tried them in what I understood to be a modded NOS. I think I got a bit mixed up and had too wide a space (40cm) which gave a bit of a hole in the middle sound.
The client, a classical soprano, was delighted, but I was irritated with myself.
Her timbre did come out very well though...and NO EQ whatsoever was needed to represent her instrument properly.
Detail was by no means as razor sharp as my Beyer MC 930's in ORTF...but that is to be expected. At least the CM3's don't spit in your ear every time a Sop hits her resonant freqs.

[Notsosane]

Originally Posted by unqlenol

Thanks for them kind words Dave. Here's the deal: I used the cm3s straight, no angle. I could just as easily have angled slightly.
Maybe next time I will, especially if I get a fancy stereo bar that allows me
to not have to stuff around with alan keys and pliers etc.

I made my own bar out of 1" x 1/4" aluminum stock. I drill holes as I need them; now I have omni's at 67cm and holes for the ortf/nos pair in the middle. (The little stack on top in the middle in the pic is an optional ms pair).
I've been experimenting with different angles of the outer omni pair, but honestly, can't tell much difference when omni's are angled (no surprise).

Much like you, I start with the ab sound and mix in the center to define the image and a little "up front" sound. I take no credit as this is an arrangement described by Tony Faulker in an interview. It's nice having all this on one stand.

I think next time out, I'll stack the CM3's on top of the omni's and that way I'll have a good comp. I like the CM3's and am still becoming familiar with their wide card pattern.
Thanks for posting.

Dave
(link to more pics of the rig)
http://s900.beta.photobucket.com/use...%20array%20bar

[unqlenol]

Originally Posted by Notsosane

I made my own bar out of 1" x 1/4" aluminum stock. I drill holes as I need them; now I have omni's at 67cm and holes for the ortf/nos pair in the middle. (The little stack on top in the middle in the pic is an optional ms pair).
I've been experimenting with different angles of the outer omni pair, but honestly, can't tell much difference when omni's are angled (no surprise).

Much like you, I start with the ab sound and mix in the center to define the image and a little "up front" sound. I take no credit as this is an arrangement described by Tony Faulker in an interview. It's nice having all this on one stand.

I think next time out, I'll stack the CM3's on top of the omni's and that way I'll have a good comp. I like the CM3's and am still becoming familiar with their wide card pattern.
Thanks for posting.

Dave
(link to more pics of the rig)
Faulker array bar pictures by montybucket_2009 - Photobucket

Thanks Dave.
Your DIY bar is too cool! I can't quite see how you have pulled off the MS mounting, but the rest I can make out. So those are right angled XLRs, correct? My bar is simply a piece of rack rail. Works fine with little fuss, but gets a bit bendy when holding LDC's on the outskirts.
Makes me nervous during a live concert.
I like yours better!

I should say that one reason I instinctively did not outward angle the AB CM3's is that I was trying to be the boss over an overwhelming acoustic....so angling seemed contradictory to my plan.
As for the 50cm spacing...well....my friend Rob says that if the DPA bar is 50cm it must be for a reason. Having said that, I have also gotten good results with 67cm (I probably saw the same Faulkner interview as you!).

Guess I am a little OT now.

Cheers.