CM3 - really THAT good?

[jpgerard]

The CM3 is a tough act to follow!

[polytope]

Originally Posted by jpgerard

The CM3 is a tough act to follow!

But if anyone can do it, it's Roger.

[jpgerard]

You got that right!

[Earcatcher]

Originally Posted by Douglas Whates

Hmm. Specs don't tell you the quality of the noise, but that's quite high for an omni. I somehow expected it would be quieter than the CM3. Hopefully any noise that is present will be quite smooth (a la CM3).

The smaller the capsule, the more amplification you will need as there is less surface that causes current to flow. This is always the trade-off with smaller capsules. Their off-axis response becomes better with smaller size, but their noise levels will go up.

[Douglas Whates]

Originally Posted by Earcatcher

The smaller the capsule, the more amplification you will need as there is less surface that causes current to flow. This is always the trade-off with smaller capsules. Their off-axis response becomes better with smaller size, but their noise levels will go up.

What size of capsule is this OM-1? Maybe I missed that info...

[jpgerard]

From Roger @ Line Audio:

"10mm diameter (opening less than 4mm outer diameter).

I have tried to balance on/off axis performance with noise performance and settled for a 10mm capsule, somewhere around that diameter I get a good balance (laws of physics limit, for omni). When it comes to on axis /off axis performance a 6mm capsule may be more ideal in the upper octave, but also produces much more noise. Going up to 10mm the noise could be lowered by about 5dB."

[didier.brest]

Originally Posted by jpgerard

Size: 77mm x 20mm

Originally Posted by Douglas Whates

Looks great (if a little sexual - sorry, but I'm only saying what everybody is thinking!).

Everybody, are you sure ?

[Mats H]

Guess who just bought a pair of CM3s?

And yes, that's a brand spanking new Audient ASP008...

[uglypunk]

Originally Posted by Mats H

Guess who just bought a pair of CM3s?

And yes, that's a brand spanking new Audient ASP008...

looking forward to hear some samples of that combination. i own the audient mico and i´m in a market for a pair of small condenser mics too.

[rmaier]

Originally Posted by Mats H

Guess who just bought a pair of CM3s?

And yes, that's a brand spanking new Audient ASP008...

Have fun! My memory is admittedly dodgy, but I seem to recall you have a pair of Beyer MC930s. Curious as to how these compare, as I've been wondering about these for a while, and what they might bring that I don't get from my MC930s and KSM141s.

Looking forward to how the omnis are as well.

[Mats H]

Originally Posted by uglypunk

looking forward to hear some samples of that combination. i own the audient mico and i´m in a market for a pair of small condenser mics too.

Yeah, so far I got really annoyed at the ASP008. The fan makes a high pitched noise (820 Hz an 2200 Hz) as well as being super loud. I can't use it now so I'll buy a less noisy fan later today, which I intend to mod for lower speed.

Also when the 008 arrived some parts were loose. The locking ring on the word clock input BNC connector wasn't fastened, so it rattled. And as I disengaged the phantom power on channel 1, the button came flying out of the case (!). Soundwise it's fine. It's a more open sounding DI than my UFX.

The mics seem to be okay, I just did a quick test yesterday to see if both were working. My day job this week has me working evenings. Don't have much time to try them out quite yet.

Originally Posted by rmaier

Have fun! My memory is admittedly dodgy, but I seem to recall you have a pair of Beyer MC930s. Curious as to how these compare, as I've been wondering about these for a while, and what they might bring that I don't get from my MC930s and KSM141s.

Looking forward to how the omnis are as well.

I actually don't have any Beyers to compare to. My condenser mic list is as follows, in case someone here wants comparisons:

Neumann KM140 x2
Microtech Gefell M296 x4
Line Audio CM2 x2
Line Audio CM3 x2
Milab DC96B
Naiant MSH1 x2
Naiant kick drum mic (dunno the model name)
Naiant guitar mic
Behringer ECM8000 x2
Rode NT2000
Studio Projects C1
Studio Projects B1
Marshall MXL V69ME

Other mics that I currently use:
Neumann KM84
Sennheiser MKH40
Sennheiser MKH30
Sennheiser MKH406 x2
Sennheiser MKH20 x2
Schoeps MSTC64

[cyjanopan]

Originally Posted by rmaier

Have fun! My memory is admittedly dodgy, but I seem to recall you have a pair of Beyer MC930s. Curious as to how these compare, as I've been wondering about these for a while, and what they might bring that I don't get from my MC930s and KSM141s.

Looking forward to how the omnis are as well.

If you're interested in comparison between CM3 and MC930 I have some files for you, different takes but placement and preamps and players are the same, so you can hear something

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by Mats H

Yeah, so far I got really annoyed at the ASP008. The fan makes a high pitched noise (820 Hz an 2200 Hz) as well as being super loud. I can't use it now so I'll buy a less noisy fan later today, which I intend to mod for lower speed.

Also when the 008 arrived some parts were loose. The locking ring on the word clock input BNC connector wasn't fastened, so it rattled. And as I disengaged the phantom power on channel 1, the button came flying out of the case (!). Soundwise it's fine. It's a more open sounding DI than my UFX.

The mics seem to be okay, I just did a quick test yesterday to see if both were working. My day job this week has me working evenings. Don't have much time to try them out quite yet.



I actually don't have any Beyers to compare to. My condenser mic list is as follows, in case someone here wants comparisons:

Neumann KM140 x2
Microtech Gefell M296 x4
Line Audio CM2 x2
Line Audio CM3 x2
Milab DC96B
Naiant MSH1 x2
Naiant kick drum mic (dunno the model name)
Naiant guitar mic
Behringer ECM8000 x2
Rode NT2000
Studio Projects C1
Studio Projects B1
Marshall MXL V69ME

Other mics that I currently use:
Neumann KM84
Sennheiser MKH40
Sennheiser MKH30
Sennheiser MKH406 x2
Sennheiser MKH20 x2
Schoeps MSTC64

Well, I for one would be interested in comparison with the Gefells (any source - stereo, etc.) and Neumann KM84 on acoustic guitar - for the letter it could be a mono, one mic only comparison - there is one very weird youtube shoot-out people seem to take seriously none the less and it would be cool to compare the classic "acoustic guitar mic" with the CM3...

In that shoot out the Neumann outperforms all other mics by a mile, but I suspect the difference in positioning or something else - CM3 sounds rather bad there - thin and plasticky - and it almost made me not buy them after listening to that - but I figured out there must be something else at play, since other comparisons didn't show such differences with other mics... so to have a true KM84 - CM3 acoustic guitar comparison would be very cool - the same takes and the same position.

Here's that "flawed" comparison using different takes and mic positions (hopefully not even different picks, but I wouldn't be surprised that even that was at play there): MicShootout Acoustic Guitar Small Condensers - YouTube

[jpgerard]

Yes, I've seen/heard it too and I've owned a KMS84 and it did have that kind of sound but the CM3 file sounds so UNLIKE a CM3... not sure what to think of it.

[The Listener]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

If you're interested in comparison between CM3 and MC930 I have some files for you, different takes but placement and preamps and players are the same, so you can hear something

Very cool! Shows that you could record a great sounding jazz album just with a couple of CM3s... if this is not really cool, I don't know what is.

To my ears in those clips they sound quite a bit more "focused" than MC930 - not so "pillowy" on the bass and very nicely balanced on the sax. It is interesting that it sounds like they would pick less of the room and focus more on the instrument than MC930, maybe that has to do with the very good off axis response, so the room and instrument blend in one tone more coherently or what would that be - especially when I would suspect the wide cardioid to pick more of the room sound than the cardioid here... On the sax both worked cool - but I think I would choose CM3 none the less - not just because of the price that is still way less than even MC930.
Still - single take comparison would be welcome... the difference between the performances and those micro differencies in position make too much of a sound difference for a really fair comparison.

[studer58]

Originally Posted by jpgerard

From Roger @ Line Audio:

"10mm diameter (opening less than 4mm outer diameter).

I have tried to balance on/off axis performance with noise performance and settled for a 10mm capsule, somewhere around that diameter I get a good balance (laws of physics limit, for omni). When it comes to on axis /off axis performance a 6mm capsule may be more ideal in the upper octave, but also produces much more noise. Going up to 10mm the noise could be lowered by about 5dB."

This information from Roger would suggest that the OM1 is beyond the prototype and testing phases, and ready to be produced in quantity without further experimentation ? Could potential purchasers be assured that the OM1 is now complete and won't undergo 'marketplace tweaking' similar to the CM3, which in November 2011 underwent a new revision with 12-52V phantom capability and greater SPL handling: 135dB@0.5% (clipping at >140dB)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against improvements per se as long as there isn't a succession of them rendering the earlier editions obsolete, and in the realm of microphones, this is relatively rare event anyway. However it would be reassuring to know that the 'final version' is due for release soon ?

[polytope]

Originally Posted by studer58

This information from Roger would suggest that the OM1 is beyond the prototype and testing phases, and ready to be produced in quantity without further experimentation ? Could potential purchasers be assured that the OM1 is now complete and won't undergo 'marketplace tweaking' similar to the CM3, which in November 2011 underwent a new revision with 12-52V phantom capability and greater SPL handling: 135dB@0.5% (clipping at >140dB)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against improvements per se as long as there isn't a succession of them rendering the earlier editions obsolete, and in the realm of microphones, this is relatively rare event anyway. However it would be reassuring to know that the 'final version' is due for release soon ?

A friend of mine advised me to never buy Rev. A products, even those from big and reputable companies. But then I have done that against the advice many times and 4 times out of 5, I don't regret it.

But I think it's true that there is always a risk in buying a newly designed product.

[jpgerard]

The OM-1 benefits from the latest CM3 circuit designs. However it's possible that in a year or two it will be improved. I really don't see the problem in upgrading a product when possible. Roger does his best to offer the best product he can but if he had to wait until a product couldn't be improved anymore he'd never release anything; there's always a new idea, a new component, a new way to look at a design. There are a few dozens OM-1 in use right now that were part of the original Beta production. We're now in the final production stage so the OM-1 that will be available in June should be considered the final version but it's not impossible that in a year, two or three there will be a revision. Note that this is not a rushed project. Roger took his time, I've been following this for many months now.

[uglypunk]

as roger stated on his page LINE AUDIO DESIGN ,the last revision of the cm3 was introduced in nov 2011. here are some audio samples before the launch of the last revision. are there any differences in sound?

[jpgerard]

The capsule is still the same, it's mainly an increase in headroom and wider span of possible Phantom power voltages. So the sound before and after is the same.

[hendriks]

Originally Posted by uglypunk

as roger stated on his page LINE AUDIO DESIGN ,the last revision of the cm3 was introduced in nov 2011. here are some audio samples before the launch of the last revision. are there any differences in sound?

My samples (piano, sax/piano etc. and choir) are with cm3's from after nov. 2011.

Peter.

[king2070lplaya]

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

[jmcarlock]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

Great tone from $100 mics; these are really a fine tool.

[uglypunk]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

i got goose bumps...

i´m sold, ordering a pair soon. at such a price tag, you can´t go wrong with a pair of that tiny little mics. thank you all for the audio samples!!!

[aracu]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

very nice

[Wesma]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

Sounds great! Any processing on that?

[king2070lplaya]

Originally Posted by Wesma

Sounds great! Any processing on that?

Not really, just a few edits, summed analog, and it went through my Avalon 747 with only the tube signal path inserted (no comp/eq).

[boojum]

Nice recording. Great little mics. Or, let's try it this way: does anyone not like their CM3's? LOL

[rmaier]

I'm consistently impressed by the quality of these mics. Both the jazz excerpts and the Bach work really well. Thanks for sharing these clips. I think I know what my next SDC purchase will be.

[polytope]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

String quartet doing a little Bach

mics are 3 Line Audio cm3: a wide-NOSish pair in front and a cello spot. Powered by DAV preamps.

Sweet!