Live Concert DVD Surround Question(s)

[AdamONE]

I have read through some other posts and gotten some ideas, but I have a few issues I need to clear up a little. So, I recorded a live show for a DVD release, and they want to do it in 5.1 Dolby Digital. This is the first time I've produced something in 5.1.. First of all, let me say I've got everything set up...Nuendo 3, 5 Mackie HR824s, etc. etc.. (not using LFE for this so no sub). The performance is a singer/songwriter (solo guitar and vocal). I figured I'd just throw a bit of verb and a couple of room/audience mics in surround to open things up a bit. I also plan on sending a separate stereo mix.

I have a nice test mix going and everything sounds big and full: Vocals in the center channel, guitar mixed in stereo with a little in center, and verbs and room mics set up differently in the surround field. To preview, I export as individual wav files and import them into Vegas 6. Then I prep everything and encode the AC3 file. When I listen back on surround systems, I seem to have lost a good bit of the center channel. It also sounds like this if I preview the mix matrixed onto 2 channels. Am I setting something up wrong in the encoding process?

My last question is about surround normalization. How loud should it be? Is there a standard. It seems from some of the reading I've done here that there isn't.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I am mainly concerned as I am providing the AC3 files to the video guys, so it needs to be right on my end and I want to ensure that it works. I love mixing in surround so far, it seems easier to get a full sound, but I just want that to translate...geez, as soon as I get stereo mixing down!

-Adam

[seriousfun]

Center channel level - if you are sure that your speaker system is properly calibrated, stay with it. You are providing the reference, not random consumer systems (unless the other systems you used to check your mix were properly calibrated and yours isn't). The other systems might have insufficient center channel speakers compared to your matched speaker, but again you are the reference here.

Normalization - I'm not sure if I'd use that term, but thankfully surround mixes generally (I can name exceptions) aren't squashed like most 2.0 CD mixes seem to be these days. IMO Make sure it's as loud as you can get without overs, and add a little 5.0 compression as it suits the mix, not for loudness. Loudness is provided by the consumer's volume control (as it should be for CDs, but that's another thread...).

5.0 mixing style - 2.0 and mono are one-dimensional - width of some sort, with no real height or depth (depth in a 2.0 mix is subjective IMO). The benefit of 5.0 stereo is that you add depth extending front and back, right and left. If you listen to a wide variety of 5.0 mixes, you will find a variety of approches to vocals. The extreme approaches include vocals dry in the center channel only, and nothing at all in the center channel. 5.0 mixes that work in the broadest ranges of systems, for me, bring vocals a little closer to the listener by having the vocal about 60% in the center and 20/20% R&L, taking advantage of the dimensional space. Also, build some reverb/effects around the vocal, not just putting reverb/effects in the surround channels.

One guitar - I've experimented with placing it equally in the Center Channel, R/C phantom, and L/C phantom, giving it size and dimension, but not the same as the vocal, but there are a lot of approaches.

Room mics - again, probably not strictly in the surround speakers, but centered somewhere between L/Ls and R/Rs (or even L/Ls/R and R/Rs/L to bring them a little toward the middle of the soundfield).

I believe it would be Fair Use to rip a few DVD Dolby Digital tracks to Nuendo for analysis and study before you proceed.

[AdamONE]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Thanks for the advice. I think I've got a lot straightened out (at least in my head!), but I'm still having issues with the ac3 encoding. It sounds like there is some compression or something happening. It's almost like there's a little distortion too, even without going over with the levels.

Thanks again,
-Adam

[seriousfun]

AC-3 reduces data, it doesn't compress data. Only about 10% of the original data is retained in an AC-3 file compared to the original file. It's one of those things that, while the sound isn't perfect, it is a miracle that it works so well (Dolby is very good with this way of thinking). Strictly speaking, it doesn't compress dynamics or add distortion.

[dhughes]

You may want to check out DTS encoding as an alternative. SurcodeDTS is a stand-alone software encoder and does a great job.

[Billster]

Originally Posted by seriousfun

I believe it would be Fair Use to rip a few DVD Dolby Digital tracks to Nuendo for analysis and study before you proceed.

Can you please elaborate on that ? I´d like to import a live dvds 5.1 audiostream in my PT session. How do you do that ?

I managed to rip the dvd and now I have the vob-files. Then I extracted the audio using VLC. But it´s a stereo signal, no 5.1

Please help !
Bill

[Billster]

Anyone ?? Help would be very appreciated

Bill

[seriousfun]

Originally Posted by Billster

Anyone ?? Help would be very appreciated

Bill

I've used DVD Decrypter - this and many other tools are listed at http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/software2.htm.