How to handle a limited track count for live recordings?

[hbphotoav]

Depends. When my monthly 16-channel tracking gig at a tiny neighborhood club went downtown to a 24-channel rig, I upgraded my interface (and my passive split) from a Mackie Onyx 1640 to a PreSonus 24.4.2. Got a nice tracking rig and a very cool main FOH mixer for my industrial AV support gigs.

When I was first starting out (mid-'70s), I recorded live gigs with two line inputs from the house console (L/R if they had it) and two mic inputs for a stereo room capture (TEAC A450 cassette). They're not ultra-hi-fi... but the circle of friends and musicians I documented are, to this day, glad I was there with what I had.

I did my first choral album in 1979 with a TEAC A3340S, with four spot mics mixed and panned through a Peavey 800S on 1/2 and two main mics on 3/4. Lots of stuff in the '90s ran through a small Soundcraft mixer to a ReVox cassette recorder, Dolby C. When I got my Apogee Ensemble (8 analog inputs), I mixed live FOH events into four stereo submasters (Drums, Bass, Instruments, Vocals) and remixed those after capture. My Mackie Onyx 1220 had four mic inputs and eight line inputs, which I fed with a PreSonus FirePod's eight analog line outputs for 12 channels. Sounds like a lot of stuff... but it's been spread over nearly 40 years.

All that is to say... do what you have to do to get the job done for your client. If you have at least 4 channels available in your rig, at least a room pair and a stereo console mix. If you know the FOH guy and he trusts you, he might give you a pair of pre-fade auxes so you can create a "stereo" mix independent of the house PA mix. Rent extra gear if the client will allow it. At least build quiet passive splits for every channel you have available. If you have a mixer, take splits and submix what you can... capture lead vox, lead guitar, bass, whatever, as individual tracks. Etc, etc, etc.

Good luck!

[Matti]

You can have groups out of the friendly FOH in such situations

Matti

[huub]

Rent extra equipment.

[Vagodeoz]

Originally Posted by huub

Rent extra equipment.

If you rent extra equipment, you no longer have a limited track count :P
I leave out non essential channels.
The first one to go is the Hi Hat, and usually next in the list is the rack toms.

[LX3]

It depends on the kind of job of course, but on the whole I agree with huub. Rent more gear, or pass the job onto someone properly equipped to do it.

Being honest by telling your client that it's a little bit beyond your capabilities is better than telling the client afterwards "Sorry, I didn't have enough tracks to record the bass mic".

But if pushed... record only one of the two kick mics, drop hihat perhaps. Dropping toms is one of the last things I'd do... unless it's a jazz gig.

Submixing things kind of works, but is a last resort IMO. Much better (and possibly more straightforward) to get more tracks happening.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by huub

Rent extra equipment.

^^^^^^^^
what he said

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

If you rent extra equipment, you no longer have a limited track count :P
I leave out non essential channels.
The first one to go is the Hi Hat, and usually next in the list is the rack toms.

I hear you, but who makes the decision on what's non essential?

I rarely use (need) a hi-hat, but every now and then it's mission critical, especially when the drummer does some subtle stuff you just cannot get with overheads or the snare mic.

Same goes with toms; I like to use overheads and a sweet spot mic, but what happens when the drummer or client is expecting a full kit?

As you already know, "If you rent extra equipment, you no longer have a limited track count :P"

For your review: Here's another thread about the same topic...

Managing track counts during live recording

[hbphotoav]

That said... I often need MORE tracks than channels used on the FOH desk... as in at least a pair of room mics.

Good rule of thumb: Under-promise... Over-deliver.

I never lost a client because I did more than I said I would. The opposite, sadly, never works out well for anyone.

[Vagodeoz]

Thanks Remoteness for the insight.
Indeed the ideal is a 1:1 recording. However for me passing the job to someone who has bigger equipment or renting isn`t a choice, since I`m the only one in my town who does live recordings.
And I did look at that thread about managing tracks, but I wanted a poll to see how different people react. I have always been good with mathematics so seeing things with numbers and statics help me get a better insight.

And hbphotoav, your rule of thumb sounds great. I have been using it subconsciously but I think it will be my internal motto for the studio

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

...However for me passing the job to someone who has bigger equipment or renting isn`t a choice, since I`m the only one in my town who does live recordings.

Woo-hoo! Result! That's called a monopoly.

This issue of dropping tracks does of course depend on what kind of acts you're recording, and what kind of financial compensation you're getting for doing it.

It's hard to justify blowing a lot of money on more preamps, big splitters and multicores and more sophisticated recorders (and a bigger vehicle to carry it around in) if you're getting $100 to record the local covers band. So yes, at that point it's time to economise on your track usage where necessary.

Then again, this is gearslutz. We all want more gear don't we?

I've ended up with 88 channels of Audient ASP008s, and it seems inevitable I'll be expanding two of my three MADI recorders to 128 tracks in the near future, mainly because I can. Wasn't I saying I was slowing down with the gear-buying a couple of years back? Never happened.

[Vagodeoz]

Originally Posted by LX3

Woo-hoo! Result! That's called a monopoly.

Yup! :D That is why I`m so concerned about giving the best possible service with the extreme gear and budget limitations we have in a fourth world country.
I found my work niche and I have my monopoly. Now let`s continously increase the quality of my service, that way I can also KEEP the monopoly

Originally Posted by LX3

Wasn't I saying I was slowing down with the gear-buying a couple of years back? Never happened.

Can`t be held. The only way to slow down is if your studio doesn`t get hired in months.
Trust me, I have been there before I found my monopolistic niche

And about the price, that is exactly my point.
Rosetta`s are out of the question if you are recording gigs for 200 bucks, which is my case...

[Bibster]

Originally Posted by hbphotoav

The opposite, sadly, never works out well for anyone.

Now, what's sad about that?

Do love the motto though... makes a nice acronym, no, initialism: uPOD (Cue Apple lawyers)

[JimDaddyO]

I have not tried this, but here is what I plan to do if/when the need arises (hope it works). We just got a DAW but it can only take 8 in (well 10 if you include the digital in). Previously, we were recording to ADAT through a Mackie 1604. I plan on taking the drums to start (4 mic method, but I can increase this to fill the Mackie board)) and putting them to the Mackie, mix them there (incl going through the outboard gear), then send the signal to the DAW, using only 2 tracks. I then have 6 ins open (8 if you count the digital ins, I wish the Mackie had a digital out, that would be handy, is there a converter to do this). Now the Mackie still has open channels that I can use and route to the alt. 3/4 and I can do the same procedure all over again for something else (backing vox, brass, whatever). Does this sound like a good method??

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by JimDaddyO

I then have 6 ins open (8 if you count the digital ins, I wish the Mackie had a digital out, that would be handy, is there a converter to do this).

I'm in the same boat as you and was looking at this converter:


BEHRINGER: SRC2496


Pretty reasonable in price. Converters are supposed to be okay.

[JimDaddyO]

Originally Posted by Brackish

I'm in the same boat as you and was looking at this converter:


BEHRINGER: SRC2496


Pretty reasonable in price. Converters are supposed to be okay.

Interesting piece of kit....Thank you!

[hbphotoav]

Might move up from the 1604 to one of the Onyx consoles. Since PreSonus well and truly captured the bottom of the price range for decent small digital desks, the (originally) $500 dig card for Onyx is now $99. Find a used 1640 without one, and you're there, if you can use a FireWire interface. Plenty of live desk functionality as well... 6 auxes, CR feed, rec out feed on RCAs, 16+L/R to tracks. Pretty good bang-for-the-buck 5 years ago, and still is so.

[rprecording]

Here's an odd trick. Not perfect but might help out in a pinch.

If you take sources that are at opposite ends of the freq spectrum, you can combine them to a single mono track. Once you're back at a DAW, make a copy of the track and use high and low shelf eq's on each to "largely" eliminate one or the other.

For example, combine kick with maybe key's (if they're playing mostly mid and upper registers). BTW... if eq'ing the key's out also takes the kick's beater hit, you can sort of recreate it by copying the kick, run the copy thru a gate with very short open time. Play with the attack a bit and you'll find that you can generate a distortion click from the gate. Mix this in with the kick and it can pass for a pretty fair beater. Bass could be combined with HH or maybe even OH's.

It's not ideal and how many tracks you could save would depend on what kind of instruments you have to deal with but if you're only short by a few, this could do the trick.