Blumlein Shuffler Circuit for bass widening

[king2070lplaya]

Hi folks,

Does anyone out there use a shuffler circuit the widen the bass image on coincident pairs (M-S, Blumlein) or Jecklin Disk recordings? If so, what piece of equipment are you using to do it?

I was checking out the DAV Electronics SIPP though I'm not sure if M-S shuffle option on the box simply converts the 2 signals into Mid-side, or if it's designed to do this kind of "bass widening" as well. The site doesn't have a ton about exactly how it functions in this way, though the link they include references a shuffling circuit being used in this way by EMI in the 50's on their Blumlein setups.

D.A.V. electronics - The Broadhurst Gardens No. 2 mk II Mic Amp

Just curious for some information on this type of application as there seems to be a rather limited information pool out there on the topic. Thanks for any help!

Kevin

[aracu]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

Hi folks,

Does anyone out there use a shuffler circuit the widen the bass image on coincident pairs (M-S, Blumlein) or Jecklin Disk recordings? If so, what piece of equipment are you using to do it?

I was checking out the DAV Electronics SIPP though I'm not sure if M-S shuffle option on the box simply converts the 2 signals into Mid-side, or if it's designed to do this kind of "bass widening" as well. The site doesn't have a ton about exactly how it functions in this way, though the link they include references a shuffling circuit being used in this way by EMI in the 50's on their Blumlein setups.

D.A.V. electronics - The Broadhurst Gardens No. 2 mk II Mic Amp


Just curious for some information on this type of application as there seems to be a rather limited information pool out there on the topic. Thanks for any help!

Kevin

I have experimented with shuffling using Waves software, and also by
adding eq to the side channal before matrixing. I prefer the sound without shuffling, but I often add eq adjustments to the matrixed ms recording.

[Kewl]

Yes, the Waves S1 Shuffler was designed by Michel Gerzon, based on the Blumlein patent.

[king2070lplaya]

Interesting, I was hoping there might be more users of this technique. It is mentioned in the Jecklin Disc patent, and obviously by Blumlein for use with his coincident techniques. I thought more people would be into it.

Can anybody comment on, from experience, the DAV unit? as a Blumlein Shuffler or just as a stereo tool?

[Nobilmente]

Maybe four years or so ago (maybe more) I asked Mick if he would design a shuffler for me, he already had his drawings for this and said that time that he was already designing something suitable for the purpose.

The S.I.P.P. came out shortly afterwards and I'm 99.999% certain that the technique can be practised on this.

It would be so easy to drop him an email and he would just say yes or no. I've had this piece of gear on my shopping list for far too long now.


enquiries@davelectronics.com

[king2070lplaya]

Quote:
"It would be so easy to drop him an email and he would just say yes or no. I've had this piece of gear on my shopping list for too long now."

Nobilmente thank you for that. Don't know why I didn't just go there first in regards to the DAV.

[Nobilmente]

You're welcome.

[studer58]

Originally Posted by king2070lplaya

Hi folks,

Does anyone out there use a shuffler circuit the widen the bass image on coincident pairs (M-S, Blumlein) or Jecklin Disk recordings? If so, what piece of equipment are you using to do it?

I was checking out the DAV Electronics SIPP though I'm not sure if M-S shuffle option on the box simply converts the 2 signals into Mid-side, or if it's designed to do this kind of "bass widening" as well. The site doesn't have a ton about exactly how it functions in this way, though the link they include references a shuffling circuit being used in this way by EMI in the 50's on their Blumlein setups.

D.A.V. electronics - The Broadhurst Gardens No. 2 mk II Mic Amp


Just curious for some information on this type of application as there seems to be a rather limited information pool out there on the topic. Thanks for any help!

Kevin

I have a dim recollection of a tip (maybe from the Bruce Bartlett book ?) that to give a more realistic bass image with a Jecklin disc you were advised to boost 200Hz by about 6dB in both channels, but I can't recall if it was a shelving or a small peak type of boost. Anyone else recall it ?

[king2070lplaya]

That's in the "recording on location" book (Bartlett), probably his others as well. I believe he says to boost the side and cut equally in the middle..... Out of town right now and will have to check the specifics when I get home. Well, is that all there is to it? I will have to try that on some tracks and see if it does the trick.

[PRH]

Well there is this: BDT

In that article there is a link to a simple active circuit based on the 1994 AES journal paper by Michael Gerzon.

I think that the shuffling should be doable in software by a competent audio dsp programmer. It is basically a conversion from LR to MS, applying a bass boost at a specific frequency in the S channel, and a delay and a slight bass cut in the M channel, then convert back to LR.

Unless I am mistaken, the shuffler in the Waves S1 product is not quite as described by Gerzon (according to the S1 manual from the Waves web site).

Paul

[Russell Dawkins]

I have tried it on a few occasions but only actually used the effect once, with an orchestral recording. I did it within the Metric Halo environment, on an MIO 2882+DSP.