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The Death of Classical Music
#211
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnbarg View Post
I'll be honest, my concern is also quite personal. My son is now 15. At 11 he left piano to begin playing the oboe in band. He studies with a symphony member, and has shown great promise, having been given a standing invite to our city's youth orchestra. I melt when he plays.
He currently hates it. Would rather play basketball, hang out with friends and listen to rap. We argue about practicing regularly. I maintain he will study an instrument until he graduates. It's part of a life's education.
I know this isn't a new struggle. And I"ll be honest, I don't hope for "musical stature" from a gaggle of classical snobs for him. I simply hope for him to be able to make music and understand lots of musical languages.
His life will be richer, society will be richer. For me to call him musically "re-tard-ed" at this point would be as re-tard-ed as that comment.

darryl
Hey Darryl! I can understand your desire for your son to appreciate greatness and develop as a musician but on the otherhand, perhaps his own passions have little to do with such. My own son, who is 18 just finished his first year of college, shares very few of my own "interests"/ passions but that is OK. Different person, entirely. Among other things he has always been a comedian. People used to ask, "oh, what would he like to do later in life/inclinations?" ans: comedian. "oh, what is he going to school for?" ans: comedian.
boojum
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#212
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #212
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FWIW I met a classical violinist who plays regularly as a professional in a quartet. As a kid he would slip out the window of his room and go to his uncle's and watch baseball with his cousin, whom I knew. Skipping practice does not eliminate the possibility of becoming a classical musician. I'd say it is a normal rebellion. The iron-clad rules remains, however, the only way to the Paramount is practice. The violinist did spend more time with a bow in his hand than a bat.
#213
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #213
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We sometimes have to remind ourselves that less than 25% of the USA population has matriculated in to higher education.

One thing college does do is to help to develop an increased sense of curiosity. Being around others who have skills we don't have helps us to realize how little we know as young students.

In Chicago 67% of high school students drop out before graduation.
Of the balance of the 33% who do not drop out, only 25% of the 33% continue on to college.

Classical music listeners are educated people for the most part.
Draw your own conclusions. . .
#214
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #214
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Originally Posted by Plush View Post
...
Draw your own conclusions. . .
The future is a world dominated by re-runs of American Idol?
#215
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnbarg View Post
Yes, we'll need to disagree on stature... I have no doubt you are correct in the formal sense of "the greats". I couldn't even remember how to spell Kreisler correctly. I do have great respect for those players who have dedicated their lives and honed their skills.
However, a modified Suzuki Method is still very popular in our city, and Suzuki trained musicians are in our symphony. The stature I'd like to refer to is all the great Suzuki musicians I have heard who can play the classics strongly, and then play in all sorts of other genres with equal ease. They have dedicated thousands of hours to their training, and will enjoy a lifetime of making music.
So, here again is the problem. While I have classical training, I've made it my mission to make sense of the shifting paradigms in valuing greatness. I'm pretty confident I understand where you're coming from. You needn't exclaim more loudly with more belittling tone. That just makes you seem more frightened of the changes. And I mean that with no disrespect. I have no doubt you are 100 times the scholar/engineer I will ever be. I'm just trying to make sense of what's happening out there, and how we can have conversations with those that don't share our convictions.

Thanks for continuing to engage the conversation.

darryl
Hello Darryl,

Sorry for exclamations--that what usually happens when I write at 3 in the morning.

We are talking completely different things, so that we are on the same page:
Is the Suzuki school popular?--Absolutely.
Does it help millions people to enjoy music, learn to play instruments, cultivate love for classical music?--Absolutely!
Is Suzuki's method main accent on listening to music, play from the hearing?--Yes, absolutely.
Does Suzuki method puts an emphasis on craft, technique, etc. (i.e. professional aspects of music performance)?--No, it is not.
Is Suzuki school is one of the greatest innovations, which throughout 60 years helped thousands of people become professional musicians?--No, absolutely not. That was my exact point.

It is the same as:
Is Bose popular?--Yes.
Does Bose help millions of people enjoy music?--Yes--absolutely.
Is it a professional level equipment people would want to master their mixes?--I guess everyone decides.

Hope it is more clear now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhizomeman View Post
Marik, well, I would be careful using the words "fact" and "great" so close together due to their contingency on historical and cultural resonance. Sorry, I don't have time to address your questions specifically except to say if you cannot hear Mozart in every early Beethoven piece I'm not sure what else to say - listen more closely
What a cute way of implying and suggesting that you know something special that I don't, but what exactly is that 'something special' I have to find out myself, because you don't have time to reduce yourself for explanation...

Not sure if you read what I was writing, or saw what was actually written, but I am used to talk about music (esp. about somebody like Bach or Beethoven) from its historical perspective and context, and in much broader aspects than mere "listen more closely", so please don't drag me on that level--all that kind of listening I've done long ago.

Besides, to start with, the idea itself if one can or cannot hear Mozart in EVERY (your word) early Beethoven piece (which is an absurd by itself) is completely irrelevant for the reasons I outlined above (among many others).

Somehow I paid attention that's usually the composers who tend to put Beethoven down without giving some more or less compelling reasons.

Best, M
boojum
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#216
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #216
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Plush, I think what you say is a big reason that classical and jazz elusive to many. As some said earlier, "When you are raised on a diet of Spam prime rib tastes funny." Being exposed to culture and art is the answer. Portland, OR, had a famous mayor who had this funny poster printed. Levity aside, it takes some thought and reflection to appreciate the music. But it is not difficult. Even little kids like Mozart and similar.
Attached Thumbnails
The Death of Classical Music-expose-yourself-art-print-c10036661.jpeg  
#217
20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik View Post
Hello Darryl,

Sorry for exclamations--that what usually happens when I write at 3 in the morning.
Thanks... I was likely sensitive, responding at 3 in the morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marik View Post
We are talking completely different things, so that we are on the same page:
Is the Suzuki school popular?--Absolutely.
Does it help millions people to enjoy music, learn to play instruments, cultivate love for classical music?--Absolutely!
Is Suzuki's method main accent on listening to music, play from the hearing?--Yes, absolutely.
Does Suzuki method puts an emphasis on craft, technique, etc. (i.e. professional aspects of music performance)?--No, it is not.
Is Suzuki school is one of the greatest innovations, which throughout 60 years helped thousands of people become professional musicians?--No, absolutely not. That was my exact point.
OK, acknowledged. To be clear in return, I wasn't initially suggesting that Suzuki's method was the answer... More to say that the video I saw was the starting point of my exploration into the metaphor of music as language. It has been by far the most helpful metaphor for helping people move across boundries, so I will continue to work with it.

I will quit flogging my issues now. Thanks for the conversation. I have lurked on this forum for a few years and appreciate everyone's comments immensely... and counsel I received here over a year ago saved my butt on a remote session in rural Kenya. I will post once more with a small story of hope.

darryl
#218
20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
  #218
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a small story of hope

Clearly, there is hope...
I put on a concert this past January... a celebration of 25yrs of singing by a faith based Male Choir who's work I oversee.
We invited men, youth and boys to a choral celebration in our local concert hall. We hoped it wouldn't be a wash. In the end, we had almost 300 amateur singers on stage including 25 boys and 65 youth grades 10-12. They rehearsed for Friday evening and Saturday day, then concert sunday afternoon.
We had raised enough money that we didn't charge admission, rather asked for donations. It snow-stormed that day, so we didn't know what to expect. To our surprise, full house. 2300 people showed.
I recorded the concert for the archives, although there has now been so much demand, we may do a small release. Main pair: spaced B&K 4006 to Seventh Circle Audio C84s to Lynx Aurora to Digi 002. Pair located a few feet behind the conductor atop Shure S15 stretched right up. (no choice on placement). Spot mics were the hall's inexpensive AT's.
My dad and I sang second tenor, my son was in the baritone section.
If you're interested, here's a link to a page with a picture and a soundcloud file of the finale. It was written by a fellow who's part of our broader community. Will it stand the test of time? Doubt it, but it suited the event.
ATH News - Travel with Others - MC Manitoba

I'm a major sucker for the Russian male choir tunes. Attached.

Take care all,

darryl
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 Spasenije soledal.mp3 (4.69 MB, 32 views)
boojum
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#219
20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
  #219
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Judging by the performance posted these fellows had a bit more singing under their belts than two days rehearsals. ;o)

Yes, Russian male chorus is moving and very powerful. Great recording. Will you tell us some more about the venue. It sounds large.

Nice work!
#220
20th June 2011
Old 20th June 2011
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum View Post
Judging by the performance posted these fellows had a bit more singing under their belts than two days rehearsals. ;o)

Yes, Russian male chorus is moving and very powerful. Great recording. Will you tell us some more about the venue. It sounds large.

Nice work!
Thanks. It was a great experience. Venue is the Centennial Concert Hall in Winnipeg, Manitoba (Canada). Around 2300 seats. It was the first time I've thrown mics up in such a large space.

The boys had one afternoon before the weekend. The youth sing in school groups and the men would have no more than years of singing in the humble church choir (while they still existed) and hymns sunday morning.
OK, not the baritone in the finale posted on the linked page. He studied a bit, thought about opera, then went to work fixing tractors.

darryl
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