Audio Quality: SD MixPre & PCM-M10 or PCM-D50 & PS-2 ?

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by apple-q

Some of these are not just P48 supplies but mic-pres with gain control AND P48 that also output line-signal. So that test compares apples with oranges.

And if you look at the ones that are only P48 supplies (namely the ART, the Rolls, and the Sony) there is quite a difference in the sound between them.

[nino loss]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Listen here to the "Line" tests:

Portable Recorder Noise: The Sounds of Silence

Go back and forth listening to how quiet the "sound of silence" is in the first 2 seconds, before she starts talking. Listen with headphones to see which recorder has less hiss when no one is talking.

You go back and forth, hitting PLAY STOP, PLAY STOP, PLAY STOP.

So I did that, and to my untrained ears it sounds like the PMD661 is the most silent, followed by the R-09. Than come PMD620, LS10, M10, DR-1, H2, DR-7. After that the rest.
Very strange, because it does not reflect what I would have thought after reading so much about all those devices. Could you please comment on this, Brackfish!?

[nino loss]

Originally Posted by Brackish

What would you see as the problem with using the MTII for digital in?

Me too, I would like to know, because there is quite a price difference between a used MTII and a new D50 (I can't find it used). Also the D50, it is heavier, bigger and uses proprietary memory cards.

[nino loss]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

the Mixpre D DOES have phantom power- it is listed in the specs at the bottom of the info page on the SD site....

Phantom Power
48 V through 6.8k ohm resistors. Each mic input will supply 10 mA

Not quite, Charles! Sorry, but you have to read it again. I referenced and quoted from the same place as you. Here it is again:

Power (Internal):
2 AA alkaline batteries, 6 hours life typical with +4 dBu signal into 600 ohms, no phantom power


Power (External):
5 - 18 VDC via 4-pin Hirose connector (pin-4 positive, pin-1 negative), voltages above 14 VDC cause no damage to unit, but will open an internal poly fuse. Poly fuse will reset when voltage is removed.

[nino loss]

Originally Posted by Brackish

Well, of those two I would think the better way to go would be the
MixPre + M10 just because you'd be using the Sound Devices' preamps
(and Lundahl transformer) vs. the D50's preamps. I've never used
the D50 but I'm guessing that the Sound Devices stuff would be
better. (I do have the MixPre and a Denecke phantom unit.)

So you could actually run a side by side test ;-) These are two combos quite a few people are interested in or are already using in the field.

[nino loss]

Did I say something wrong? Are you still with me?

[nino loss]

Here is what came out of my post to Taperssection.com. A lot of people have those devices over there, you were right Charlie.

Sound Devices USBPre 2> optical> Sony PCM-D50

That's clearly a more expensive combo than I initially planned, but still, I saved money in the end, because at some point it was almost certain that only the Marantz PMD661, with its coaxial connection was up to the task of moving around in a bag over a shoulder. It was finally said that a little bit of care, good angled cables and gaffers tape, should do the trick to keep the connections in place for the few occasions when the rig will actually be subject to such a shaky field treatment.

see here USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?


Thanks again!

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by nino loss

So you could actually run a side by side test ;-) These are two combos quite a few people are interested in or are already using in the field.

I don't have D50 nor M10 so can't run these tests.

[Brackish]

Originally Posted by nino loss

Power (Internal):
2 AA alkaline batteries, 6 hours life typical with +4 dBu signal into 600 ohms, no phantom power

I think you may be misreading it.

I think they're saying that is the runtime if phantom power is turned off.

Sound Devices says the MixPre-D has 48 or 12 volts phantom.

[matt-o-]

Hi Nino,

the relevance of tech specs is always a point of discussion, as sometimes mediocre equipment claims to have highest quality specwise.... the technical measurement procedures leave enough room for methods to let your product appear better. Take techspecs as hint, but not as final criteria for decisions.

I would not recommend the MTII. I had it before the D-50, and although pure technical it was ok to use it with the digital input, there were some restraints, especially the built in non-removable battery - battery life was not very long (2-3h). In contrast the D-50 runs for hours and hours (the mixpre with phantompower also does not last very long with batteries (ca. 3-4h).

I would not overcomplicate the decision, as you have to make compromises moneywise anyway and both options (MicPre/M10 and D-50) are ok, if you can make your recordings in appropriate recording spaces. To proper record quiet voices you really need a quiet studiospace, otherwise the room noise will be way to high.

Matthias

[A3rd.Zero]

You are seriously over thinking this. This is possibly the easiest decision in the world, get the SD. Yes it does have phantom power running off AAs. Everything about it is better than anything else you have listed and anything else at it's price point. Not only is it quieter than anything else listed it also handles high SPL, limiting, and clipping better than anything else.

Just get it an be done, you won't regret it. Then just use whatever the hell bitbucket you want, doesn't matter. Zoom H1 is fine.

[8ok]

I was thinking of doing something similar - how do you power the usbpre2 if using it in the filed with the d50? A usb battery pack? Can you plug into the usb connector on the d50? (I know wishful thinking

Originally Posted by nino loss

Here is what came out of my post to Taperssection.com. A lot of people have those devices over there, you were right Charlie.

Sound Devices USBPre 2> optical> Sony PCM-D50

That's clearly a more expensive combo than I initially planned, but still, I saved money in the end, because at some point it was almost certain that only the Marantz PMD661, with its coaxial connection was up to the task of moving around in a bag over a shoulder. It was finally said that a little bit of care, good angled cables and gaffers tape, should do the trick to keep the connections in place for the few occasions when the rig will actually be subject to such a shaky field treatment.

see here USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?


Thanks again!

[A3rd.Zero]

Yes a USB battery pack. No you can't plug the USB into the D50. What the USBpre nets you is SD DAs rather than Sony DAs. That's likely a bit of a bump in quality but I like the MixPreD with it's MS decoding and better meters more than the slight audio quality bump.

[renec]

As the guy who wrote the blog post that's getting so much love here, I'll add my .02:

I've done a fair amount of recording with the deneke/d50 setup since putting that together, and I'm very happy with what I'm getting.

With that said, the mix pre may still be your best option. I haven't done that test personally yet, but sepulchra swears by it even above some of the other more expensive Sound Devices front ends and I trust his ears as much as anyone's.

Still, I could potentially run a quick test if you want to hear it. what mics are you considering?

[Brackish]

[QUOTE=renec;6792075]the mix pre may still be your best option. I haven't done that test personally yet, but sepulchra swears by it even above some of the other more expensive Sound Devices front ends and I trust his ears as much as anyone's.QUOTE]


Where could I see what he said?

[renec]

twitter @sepulchra

I know its in there somewhere...

[A3rd.Zero]

Honestly if you have budget constraints you won't hear a difference between a USBpre and a MixPre-D.

If I strain and use the best mikes in the studio on some perfectly clear highly dynamic sound I think I can hear a difference between the early MS Mix pre and the 722 (which have a totally different topology) but I don't know because I don't have a way to blind AB it.

We get wrapped up in the last .00005% too much on this board. I think if you get SD preamps and feed anything you can afford then you'll be very happy. As long as your mikes are quiet enough.

[renec]

Originally Posted by A3rd.Zero

Honestly if you have budget constraints you won't hear a difference between a USBpre and a MixPre-D.

If I strain and use the best mikes in the studio on some perfectly clear highly dynamic sound I think I can hear a difference between the early MS Mix pre and the 722 (which have a totally different topology) but I don't know because I don't have a way to blind AB it.

We get wrapped up in the last .00005% too much on this board. I think if you get SD preamps and feed anything you can afford then you'll be very happy. As long as your mikes are quiet enough.

completely agree. also I think that preamp self noise is only part of what's important in a pre (tonality and transient response being the others), and once that noise is down to someplace respectable then other considerations need to become a bigger part of the gear purchasing decisions very quickly.

For example, I like the Deneke/D50 setup because the battery life runs for days on that rig, so I can use it plant crowd mics at live events and roll the entire thing without worry. I know that I can get 2 full hours on the internal card at 24:96, and I can get 4 hours at 24:48 without touching a button, and I know my batteries will run that entire duration without breaking a sweat, which is so much more than can be said for many of the other handheld type devices.

I also like the way the limiter works in that setup (except for wind situations).

Other setups have different strengths and weaknesses, and in the end you build the rig that best suits your overall intended use and you make that decision based on way more factors than the preamp selfnoise IMO.

[8ok]

I'm trying to decide between getting the USBpre2 to use as a portable adda for my laptop as well as a connection to the D50. It just ends up costing a lot in the end (usbpre2+nice portable battery pack vs a used mixpre for d50 only and just leave the MBP out of it for now)

I'm following this with interest as I'm curious what kind of quality of AD i would be looking at with the usbp2 vs my ol'002 I'm using at the moment.

Originally Posted by A3rd.Zero

Yes a USB battery pack. No you can't plug the USB into the D50. What the USBpre nets you is SD DAs rather than Sony DAs. That's likely a bit of a bump in quality but I like the MixPreD with it's MS decoding and better meters more than the slight audio quality bump.

[AB3]

I had a mixpre. Now I USBpre2 which I think sounds better. I use it with this $70+ USB battery that lasts a real long time:
ISOUND Portable Power Max (16000 mAh) DGIPAD-4544 B&H Photo

Best,
AB

Originally Posted by 8ok

I'm trying to decide between getting the USBpre2 to use as a portable adda for my laptop as well as a connection to the D50. It just ends up costing a lot in the end (usbpre2+nice portable battery pack vs a used mixpre for d50 only and just leave the MBP out of it for now)

I'm following this with interest as I'm curious what kind of quality of AD i would be looking at with the usbp2 vs my ol'002 I'm using at the moment.