MS Recording Cars. Main microphone.

[SUHROD]

Hello!
Advise please select a main microphone for MS recording of cars! I'm choosing between the Neumann RSM 191 and Schoeps MS (CCM4 + CCM8).

[Matti]

I would choose Schoeps for being compact and no need for the matrix amp. , usually you have M/S matrix with your recorder for monitoring.

Matti

[SUHROD]

Unfortunately I can not anywhere else to compare these mics. I would be grateful if you would have sent records of cars with these microphones.
Which one is better sound will be on the car recording. After all, Neuman is more expensive.

[Matti]

Sorry, no samples but I used Schoeps Colette series M/S rig ( MK 41 and MK 8 capsules ) for documentary filming years ago when in that business and recorded abouts anything between dialogue to music to sfx -also cars with success, may I say...

Cheers

Matti

[SUHROD]

what capsule will be best to buy for MS recording of cars and backgrounds? cardioid or supercardiodid? I want to buy a universal kit.

[Matti]

Your original plan seems OK

Matti

[SUHROD]

how MS Schoeps (CCM4 + CCM8) records silence. I bought for quiet backgrounds nevaton MK-48.

[Matti]

They have noise level of 15 db-A, not the quietest around but I never noticed it.
They are de facto most used interior dialogue mics in major film industry.
Buy a nice Rycote windshield for the rig

Matti

[A3rd.Zero]

Neumann 191. It comes with an MS matrix box so you don't have to worry about that. I haven't used the Schoeps but I have used the 191, it's a very very good mike for recording cars. If you want this to be a universal solution kit then I can't think of a better mike than the 191. I find the CSS5 a little too dry and while it's much cheaper I have free access to a 191 so cost isn't a concern. Soundstorm used 191s and 190s and their library is one of the best commercial libraries out there.

[PoxyMusic]

Here are three cars I recorded with the RSM 191. On the Interior version, you can hear the track official pulling us over. They thought the microphone was a dog because of the Rycote cover!

[A3rd.Zero]

Here is some Historic Grand Prix recordings I did in Monaco last April-May.

RSM 191 with the 10db pad switched on in the matrix box
Sound Devices 722
Recorded XY

[Matti]

I've used RSM 191 as well but chose Schoeps for my uses and never regretted

Matti

[apple-q]

Originally Posted by SUHROD

Unfortunately I can not anywhere else to compare these mics. I would be grateful if you would have sent records of cars with these microphones.
Which one is better sound will be on the car recording. After all, Neuman is more expensive.

just a side note:
you are not going to capture the full variety of a car's sound with just one MS mic. the cars you hear in movies have mostly been recorded with a lage setup of mics. especially the on-board perspective. we put lavs on exhausts, engine, tires etc. a typical on-board recording will be about 8-10 trracks wide.
the result you hear in games and movies is a mix of all these mics. don't expect to get the typical porsche sound by just sitting in the car with a stereo-mic in your hand.
recording a car is almost an art of it's own. almost like recording a big insrument or a band.

[Jaymz]

Originally Posted by apple-q

just a side note:
you are not going to capture the full variety of a car's sound with just one MS mic. the cars you hear in movies have mostly been recorded with a lage setup of mics. especially the on-board perspective. we put lavs on exhausts, engine, tires etc. a typical on-board recording will be about 8-10 trracks wide.
the result you hear in games and movies is a mix of all these mics. don't expect to get the typical porsche sound by just sitting in the car with a stereo-mic in your hand.
recording a car is almost an art of it's own. almost like recording a big insrument or a band.

Indeed, most vehicles I've recorded have been 6+ mics at various positions (engine, exhaust etc). Depends on the size/type of the vehicle.

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

They thought the microphone was a dog because of the Rycote cover!

This and the recording of it has made my night!

[aracu]

Originally Posted by apple-q

we put lavs on exhausts, engine, tires etc. a typical on-board recording will be about 8-10 trracks wide.

Shure sm57 type dynamic mics are used also. They are rugged and can
take the high SPL.

[Matti]

And have highly adjusted response curve for a purpose other than this?

Matti

[SUHROD]

what do you say about microphone by Sanken CMS-7 for recording cars? Does anyone have the records with him? or Neuman 191 - the best?

[Matti]

Sanken CSS-5 is used for cinema efx rather than the mentioned, and Neumann was discussed. It is good but old and clumbersome contra Schoeps with these new digital recorders with good preamps and ability to matrix where needed in the chain
-I stick to my advice for the Schoeps pair

Matti

[See and Hear]

What type of cars are you planning on recording? If it is stock/roadsters and dragsters you do not want to use your good condensers. The spl of these cars will be blowing your mics.

[SUHROD]

What microphones do you recommend to record cars as described above?

[Matti]

CCM4 can handle 132 db at 0,5% THD but is its good to have pair of dynamic mics in your kit. I've recorded a jet fighter fly very low past us with afterburners on with a condenser mike with no problems.

Matti

[A3rd.Zero]

Stock cars, F1 cars, and drag cars will blow through 150dB at the pipes all day. There are very few ways to deal with those volumes.

DPA high SPL lavs, the high voltage Gefell test mikes, MD421 (dynamic), and the DPA 4007 in the right place will work.

Just think of cars like instruments, there are a lot of mechanics making noise, listen closely to one and you will hear what's going on in the different areas and you'll know what microphones you want to use depending on what sort of sound you are going for.