Thinking about a small remote van

[Soundhunter]

Thinking about buying this to convert into a small unit for recording. What do you guys think, at the moment the interior looks tottaly naff, all red velour but is a good size when stripped out. Hope the picture works

Steve
Canbury Sound

[Insain]

Definitly a cool van. PIcs of the inside?

[LX3]

Depends what kind of thing you're recording and what kit you need to carry. Certainly for what I do, a medium-sized van isn't big enough. That's a Transporter under there, yes?

It would be no fun doing all that conversion work and then discovering that you really needed something bigger.

I have seen a mobile built into the back of a Transporter. Cute, and ingenious, but wasn't particularly practical IMO. You had to kneel on the floor to operate the desk, and anyone else that needed to listen had to lean in through the open side-door.

But horses for courses. I need reasonably big monitors, good soundproofing, a fairly large desk, storage for stage racks, stands, cables, etc. YMMV.

[0VU]

Originally Posted by LX3

Depends what kind of thing you're recording and what kit you need to carry. Certainly for what I do, a medium-sized van isn't big enough. That's a Transporter under there, yes?

It would be no fun doing all that conversion work and then discovering that you really needed something bigger.

I have seen a mobile built into the back of a Transporter. Cute, and ingenious, but wasn't particularly practical IMO. You had to kneel on the floor to operate the desk, and anyone else that needed to listen had to lean in through the open side-door.

But horses for courses. I need reasonably big monitors, good soundproofing, a fairly large desk, storage for stage racks, stands, cables, etc. YMMV.

I'm with LX3 on this.

To me the van looks like one of the Nissan/Mazda/Toyota things and whilst I guess it's pretty enough (if you like that kind of thing) it's not remotely practical as a mobile. If you're going to invest significant time and money in converting the thing, and then rely on it to do real work, pretty comes a lot lower down the list than physically and financially practical and mechanically reliable. The prettiest van in the world might get you a job with some clients but if it's 100 miles away stuck on the side of the motorway, waiting for the AA when you're due to start, the appeal very quickly will wear off.

Imo, you need to be looking at a 3.5T van at the least. Especially if you plan on carrying a bunch of mic stands, mic cables and copper multicore. Let alone half decent montoring, and comms, and the ability to stand up. It gets very boring very quickly if you're work space for several hours a day is a van and you can't stand upright in it.

On a more mundane level, to me the low ground clearance looks like a nightmare waiting to happen. I can think of several places I've recorded where that van wouldn't go or would get damaged getting in or out. And repairing that nice shiny white paintwork and replacing all those skirts and bits of plastic after they've been shredded as the tractor drags you off a festival field through 18" of mud, litter and sewage will be very boring. Also watch out for high kerbs and humped back bridges - or really chunky cable driveovers.

I've built a few small/medium size mobiles over the years, ranging from a converted Land Rover for radio links up to a 14 tonne truck and if I did it again for my own use, I'd probably be looking at something reasonably solid and around 3.5T - 7T and not something giving up payload to stick-on body kits.

Doing a music truck with modern technology like fibre multicores, compact HD/computer based multitracks/DAWs, small digital mixers, etc. is more practical than it's ever been and one could build a 64 (or more) track capable recording unit in even an estate car/4x4 but if you need to carry anything more than the means to record audience mics and a digital PA rig split you'll need more weight capacity. And spending several hours or more, per day working in a vehicle without getting backache and a sore head from banging it on things would seem to me to need a bigger vehicle.

Whatever you decide to do, remember that in weight, it's not just a matter of setting up your gear in the back of a van. The structure and all the ancilliaries you need to operate from a van outside the venue will probably weigh much more then the recording gear itself. Half decent soundproofing doesn't weigh nothing and you'll want at least some isolation from outside noise e.g. when parked on a roadside recording in a club or behind/next to a huge PA stack on an outdoor festival. You'll also need to allow for power cables and backups (UPSs tend to be heavy and fibre mains cable isn't yet an option). If you're on copper multicore it adds up very quickly. I have 150m and 300m fibre multis which weigh around 10kg or less but I also have a lot of copper and the equivalent to 128ch. over 150m (about 6.5kg in tactical fibre on a hand carryable drum) in copper is a pretty scary weight and physical volume which needs serious consideration! Good mic stands are never lightweight and even boxes of mic leads and a half decent toolkit will be relevant loads.

If you're planning on using the vehicle in the summer, or in a location/weather where you want to keep all the doors shut, you'll probably want to look at some kind of air conditioning/cooling. Again it's not without weight.

Look at the payload capacities of different vans - VW/Merc generally have heavier mechanicals and more solid build which leaves lower payloads than the equivalent GVW vehicle from Peugeot/Renault/Citroen/Vauxhall, and the latter are also generally front wheel drive so have lower floors in the loadspace and can much greater headroom. Bear in mind that higher roofs mean reduced payload but greater working space (they also lower payload more because they need more materials to soundproof the extra volume). VW and Merc are, however more reliable. In theory. And much more expensive to buy and service. On a vehicle this size, every kg is important and over-runs can be very expensive! Oh, and avoid anything with Iveco written on it! In many ways (size, power, payload, shape, etc.) they're well suited to conversion to a mobile, unfortunately they seem to be made out of rust, plastic, balsa wood and faults and you'd be better off with a tin bath gaffer taped to a motorised sketeboard! LDV aren't much better!

Keep en eye on axle loadings as even if you get the GVW right you can still get into trouble if the vehicle's weight distribution is wrong. And make sure you do your weight calculations accurately and, especially if you're planning on doing this commercially, allow more than you think you'll ever need in extra capacity for carrying removable gear. And try not to get so tight on weight that you have to watch what you eat on the day of the job and can't carry a colleague or two to help rig.

Despite my comments about space and payload capacity being good, getting the biggest van you can find frequently is not the best option as it can be harder/more expensive to find parking for and can be more difficult to manoveur in some of the UK's 'quaint' access roads/loading bays! It'll also cost more to run and to convert. Size also affects weight distribution and payload in a given GVW so choice of size vs. practicality is very much a juggling act.

You need to think carefully about what type of work you want to do, what gear you need to do that work and the kind of places you're likely to be asked to work.

Also consider that the gear is probably the shortest lived, easiest to change/replace and most variable part of most small mobiles. It's important to get the right choice of vehicle and put in a decent quality of build and allow for the fact that the gear could well change substantially over the life of the vehicle. Get the infrastructure right and you'll have more options on what goes inside, greater long term flexibility and at least some degree of future-proofing on your investment of time and money.

Anyway, there's loads of other things to consider (those I've mentioned are by no means necessarily the most important or in any order of significance - just thinking aloud really) but in a nutshell, I'd not be looking at the van in the picture. Unless I was thinking of installing a wide screen TV, XBox, surround system and bar, or using it as a mobile brothel! Sadly, it'd probably rent out for more money as a gamesroom or brothel than it ever would as a recording unit! And you could keep the red velour interior

[Soundhunter]

Thanks Guys,

Very good advice and I don't think the brothel interior would have stayed long if I had decided to go for it.

I record classical, jazz,choirs and a lot of organs, both claasical and cinema/theatre, up to 16 channel at present, so I don't think I need anything too big, my gear packs into the back of a Toyota Previa at the moment, but it would be great to have something bigger with the gear installed.

Maybe a sprinter or something similar, any help on how to fit out would be most welcome

Steve

[philper]

One thing I would as would be if working from outside a venue in a van is going to fly with the sort of work you do. Working a van/truck alone is really hard, and you'll have to invest in a very serious snake system. I'm not sure it would be worth it for classical work, esp with a relatively small number of inputs.

phil p