need help!!! Live gig

[WarrenBeat]

Today a friend of mine told me to do him a favor, they have a gig and they need me behind the desk!!!!

I've never done a live gig I've always mixed in a studio so I need some kind of "step by step protocol" before the gig and during the gig, it's not an important gig but it's my reputation, you know?

[Aeolian]

Does this include set up? Work out a patching plan. As quickly as you can validate every input. Then validate any fx routing. Set input gains with plenty of headroom. Folks never test things as loud as they do when the music starts. Get the vocals up first. That is what most punters pay attention too. And not being able to hear the singing starts off a bad impression. Then a rough mix of the instruments. Then go back and start cutting conflicting frequencies. If you spend 10 minutes getting a killer kick sound (which many sound folks do) there may not be time to note that the bass players BU Vox mic is switched with the keyboardists. And that killer kick sound probably won't work when the whole band is playing.

Lay off the reverbs. Let the room do that. Just some delay as needed. Go easy on the compressors. Especially if they are inserted on vocal mics pre the aux sends (most low/mid boards whorl this way). Compressing the vox in the monitors makes them feedback easier and prevents the singers from hearing how loud they are. Singers can blow their voices out trying to get louder when a compressor is clamping it down. Maybe some compression on the final FOH mix. If you know how, you can set up limiters on the outputs to protect things the math is in the Yamaha live sound book (which may be worth a read if you're going to do this a few times).

Welcome to combat audio. There is no going back to fix it in the mix. Preparation and planning are everything.

[BHickey]

Get in as early as possible. Check, check, recheck, and recheck again. Nothing worse then going to raise the lead guitar mic for their solo and realizing that you have it cross patched with the rhythm guitar. Or cutting the vocal monitor only to have the bass monitor cut instead.

One of the most important processes in live reinforcement is the "line check." This is after you have plugged in all the mics and assigned all the wireless and you go through and check each mic to make sure that
A. you are getting signal, and
B. the signal is showing up in the right channels at both the FOH and monitor consoles.

After you have confirmed that everything is working and is where it is suppose to be, you are ready for sound-check. As has been posted before, focus more on balance before going crazy with effects, compression, or even EQ.

Mostly, just have fun!

[AllAboutTone]

Studio Engineers always get asked to do live sound, I know I do, my answer is hell no, don't really care to mix a band till 2 am, no matter what the pay is.

[dcdiscs]

Good advice above, but you need to clarify your question..

How many people in the band? Guitar and singer or full band?

Is the band is asking you to set up the stage, set up the main speakers, set up the monitors, do the soundcheck, eq the monitors and mix the show? All on equipment you have never used and you have never done live sound?

If the answer to that is yes, you should maybe say no or find a house engineer at one of the clubs and see if the band can hire him and you just tell him where to push the faders, eq and effects. That way you can make sure your friends band sounds good at the show and you dont have to worry about your reputation

[DaleSnale]

Pay attention to the needs of the players in their monitors. Check that the monitors are beefy sounding for vocals before the musicians step onstage. Check how much gain you can get before things start for feedback, so you don't push it into feedback during the show. Ring out the monitors by pushing them to the threshold of feedback, note the feedback frequency and notch it in the graphic eq for that particular monitor. If their are no graphs, do it on the channel strip. Better to have the monitors not feedback than to have the perfect vocal eq in the house if the channel eqs only have only sweepable eq.
Watch the players and listen for requests they may have between songs, especially the first few tunes. Make sure they acknowlege that the change was effected on their monitor (by hand signals or talkback mic is you have to). Turn up and down elements in tiny increments of a dB or two, (both in the mains and monitors). Nothing worse than a mixer who jams up a solo 6db three measures into it-everybody hears it as a mistake or inattentive engineer. If things get kinda loud as the set progresses and energy from the players increases, mix downward to balance.
Keep cool but stay honest. Don't raise anyone's blood pressure even though you may be jumping out of your skin trying to sort out a few things at once.
I find the immediacy of live mixing a refreshing juxtaposition to hours sculpting tone in the studio. And it is a great way to network with players who may come record if they like your chops!

[RobAnderson]

Preparation and planning are everything.

I'll second that emotion.

Things that would be helpful to know in order to really give you some answers are:

What sort of band?
What sort of venue?
What sort of music?
How many and what kind of instruments?
Are they the headliner?
What sort of sound system will you have at your disposal?

The needs and protocols for an arena rock concert are somewhat different than those of a bluegrass band in a park, or those of a death metal band in a bar, or those of a jazz combo in a night club, or those of a singer/songwriter in a cafe...

Are we mixing on a Mackie 1202 or a Yamaha PM5D? Monitors from FOH?

Help us to help you...

[WarrenBeat]

I'm doing it as a favor, it's not an important gig at all.

Tomorrow I'll go to the place and check out the equipment and I hope someone "babysits" me before the gig. The band is the typical setup: 1 Vx, 2 gtr, bass and drums.

I can't tell you anything more, I'm naked here.

[Aeolian]

If it's a house system, there ought to be a house engineer. Hopefully one that's decent. Try to make friends with that person. They know the room and the gear. You know the band and their tunes (ostensibly).

If the mic up every drum, start with the toms and overheads down some. If there's a bottom snare mic, start with it down a bit too. After the vocals are fairly set, you can see how much drums is getting through the vocal mics (you can briefly solo them in your cans, you'll probably hear a lot of cymbals) and bring up whatever needs a bit more help.

Try to stay out of the cans as much as you can though. It's tempting to keep soloing things and trying to get them sounding great. That's not the object. You want to hear things from the audiences perspective and get the essence of the music across. Which usually means cutting things. Either chopping frequencies so that there's more space for each instrument or more often cutting levels of background instruments to leave space for the main thing (vocals, guitar solo, whatever the hook line in the song is). The worst is when everyone is playing full chords at the same time. Blend them together down as a pad underneath everything else. If someone is playing something rhythmic, you can bring that up over the drone. Which means the drone has to be down pretty low.

[gatturio]

as a studio guy who works in live situations quite a bit....

leave all of your studio knowledge at the door. let the house guy (if there is one) dial up the band and get them how he thinks they should sound. it's your job to tweak and automate from there. also totally agree with the preparation advice. get there early and learn the gear/routing as every club is different.

also can't overstate this enough.... DON'T OVERWORK THE ROOM! since it's a live situation you probably don't need to compress/eq as much as you would in the studio. most of the sound is coming from the band itself (assuming capacity is under 200 or so.) i work in a 100 capacity room and we don't mic snare drum or guitar amps. just not needed for most acts, and it's mostly about getting guitar amps set to the proper level before they start.

[WarrenBeat]

Originally Posted by gatturio

as a studio guy who works in live situations quite a bit....

leave all of your studio knowledge at the door. let the house guy (if there is one) dial up the band and get them how he thinks they should sound. it's your job to tweak and automate from there. also totally agree with the preparation advice. get there early and learn the gear/routing as every club is different.

also can't overstate this enough.... DON'T OVERWORK THE ROOM! since it's a live situation you probably don't need to compress/eq as much as you would in the studio. most of the sound is coming from the band itself (assuming capacity is under 200 or so.) i work in a 100 capacity room and we don't mic snare drum or guitar amps. just not needed for most acts, and it's mostly about getting guitar amps set to the proper level before they start.

Thanks to all of you,, it was really helpful. Today I'll go to the place to check what they got.

Gearslutz is really helpful, compared to FutureMusic (Spain) forums

[SochiTag]

Be prepared to tell the guitarists and bass player to turn down their volume. Its impoosible to mix if the stage sound is louder than the PA.

If needed put their onstage amp on a box so their sound if closer to their ears than their ankles.

If you need more click from the bass drum gaffer tape a coin to where the beater strikes.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

Originally Posted by Aeolian

Go easy on the compressors. Especially if they are inserted on vocal mics pre the aux sends (most low/mid boards whorl this way). Compressing the vox in the monitors makes them feedback easier and prevents the singers from hearing how loud they are. Singers can blow their voices out trying to get louder when a compressor is clamping it down.

Very Important!! But it depends on whether there is a seperate monitor console. (My guess is that there probably isn't!) If you are doing monitors from FOH, split the signal of the vocal mics into two separate channels on the FOH console. One is for the vocal monitor send, the other is for FOH. That way you can compress the FOH vocal as needed and use the second un-compressed channel to send to the stage wedges. Lots more headroom before feedback!!

Also, try to avoid sending any verb or FX to the wedges as this tends to muddy things up on stage, unless the singer wants FX. But I certainly wouldn't offer it up, just do it if the artist asks for it, and even then maybe try to talk them out of it.

+1,000 on the "line check"! Can't overstress how important this is. Let us know more about the PA system when you find out and the advice can get more specific.

[solo-bration]

This probably isn't what anyone wants to hear, but if there's a house engineer, maybe bow out respectfully and let him take care of it so your inexperience doesn't ruin their gig.

I see bands bring 'their guy' to gigs all the time and I'm watching their hands tremble as they turn knobs on muted channels. If you're looking for the experience, tell the house engineer the honest truth and ask him to let you observe. That's a good way to start. I'm much more willing to help a guest engineer who states clearly "I don't know what the **** I'm doing" instead of the ones who pretend they do, when they clearly don't.

[musicguitar]

I do a lot of touring live sound for many bands. The first thing I like to tell engineers new to the gig is HPF everything except the kick drum (and even that can sometimes be HPF at 35hz).

If you set all your HPF and then get a good gain structure nothing above 0, you will get a good blend of the instruments. From there cut frequencies. Generally the best way to do this is start with the lo-mid frequency control, and a mid to a high Q range. Sweep the frequency like you would in the studio at a high gain to find an unwanted tone (pull that sucker out). Do that for all the instruments.

Drums = Gates (don't worry about compressors) --> slap the Compressor on the drum buss (if you buss to a subgroup... sometimes snare and kick can be put together and they only need it)

If you need more kick (which everyone thinks they do), use two kick drums mics but be sure to use them for the intended purposes. Inside kick (HPF up to 300-400, outside mic LPF down to 1 - 2k).

BASS = Compressor / Limiter (LPF if you need rumble and not distinction)

GTR = HPF 125 - 250hz (LPF if it is really grainy sounding)

VOX = Compression is your friend (if you are on an analog board and need more vocals (I don't recommend this but I learned it from the sound engineer who did Danzig--Subgroup to 1-2 bring that up a bit, then subgroup it again to 3 - 4 and bring them up a bit) It will add subtle volume without compromising gain structure.

Assign all your instruments to different DCA/VCA (depending on analog or digital) this will give you control for Vocal vs the Band. I like to have a Vox VCA and BAND VCA. I usually set my VCA / DCA as KSH, TOMS, BASS, <GTR, GTR>, BGV, VOX, BAND so that I can make sure the vocals are on top.

Effects (Room, Hall, Plate, and Dly)
Room = Drums
Hall = Acoustic / Vox (subtle)
Plate = Bottom Snare
DLY = Vocals (make sure it is tap tempo)

**ALONG with what others have said, start with knowing the patch in and out. Nothing like mispatching and not knowing what goes where. Live sound is about organization and the ability to work quick. The mixing tips above will get you a good tone quickly without worrying about everything.

I could go on for days, but trust your ears, and trust the house engineer (he probably can mix the band better than you can).

Good luck!

[jrakarl]

Lots of great advice here. Especially for larger venues and gigs.

This sounds like it could be a smaller gig. There's a chance you'll only be putting vocals through the PA.. that would make things easier and leaves a lot more up to the players on stage as far as overall balance and ability to hear themselves on stage!
Important to how well you can perform the live-mixing role is where the mixing desk is located in relation to the stage and audience. Beware of mixing desk positions out in the middle of the room and in front of the bar ... if a fight breaks out.. you're in the way. (Maybe that's a unique Aussie experience ... mmmm)

Some things to note, which may be obvious .. or not.

The sound of the room will change markedly when it fills with an audience (or as we call them - punters). What volumes could sound very loud and a room vibrant, can change dramatically when you add even 30 people into a modest sized venue. Add 100 people and the game changes from the volumes you may have tried at sound-check.

If there's regular crowd, look for tell-tail signs of what they're used to in the way of volume - markings on the mixing desk, positioning of speakers, speak to bar staff..

Speaking of volume I've played at a venue in the past which had a built in decibel meter (due to nearby residential areas) which was connected to the mains. If the volume went too high, power would get cut to the stage - I had a valve amp go down with crap like that once. Check that your power is stable and not connected to anything unexpected like a dB meter.

Be wise the needs of the owner of the club / bar etc. If they like it loud.. so be it, if they have a function room upstairs and need the volume kept to a specific level.. then that's in your hands.

[deltasigma]

Input list, stage plan and monitor list first.

Are you building the PA/Stage also, or is it in house and set up already??

Once PA is set up then.....

Use feedback destroyer on monitors and FOH (they should have them there)

Be aware of the mics polar response in relation to the position of the moniors (one of main reasons for feedback occuring!).

Set gain structure as you would recording (use PFL) Should only take a second, this will also count as a line check, and is very important. Most cable problems will be discovered at this point. Have a cable monkey (young chap that can contort into any position on request to re-patch and trace back any dodgy cabling, if you can find one!).

And as said here already... The band will get louder and more energetic as they get further into their set, so remember to leave yourself plenty of headroom on your channels. Do not start with all your faders at 0. keep them relatively low. Also sub group as much as you can (drums, Vox, Backing, Leads).

If you can sound check then do.. Otherwise you have to mix and balance in the first song... (very common practice for multi band stages at festivals) Tell the band this so they do not start with one of their best tunes.

Trust your ears. You already know how make things sound good.

I always HPF everything also... sometimes even the kick and the bass. Stops that LF feedback (esspecially on hollow stages!!).

Always maintain eye contact with the band. Agree hand signals for monior issues that may arise. Do not nip off to the bar for ten mins... Something WILL go wrong. And most of all.. be cool and relaxed.... Do not get angry or stressed as this will affect everything.

Oh and...

Enjoy yourself

D

[Aeolian]

I agree with gates. Especially on the kick drum. Unlike a recording where you compress a lot, live you want a fairly short sustain. The room and overhang on the subs will take care of the sustain. Gating is essential if there is a large drum monitor (possibly with a sub) that puts out some bottom. That will limit the ringing and feedback.

I'm not a fan of feedback destroyers. IME they just progressively suck things out until you're left with mud and you have to manually reset them. Notch out any really obnoxious frequencies and leave it at that. Ringing out monitors takes some practice. If you can, have someone on stage move a cupped hand toward the mic (this simulates a singers face which will change the way a mic feeds back compared to an open mic) while you ride the level. Raise the level until as their hand gets an inch or two from the mic something starts to ring. Drop that frequency on the eq just enough to stifle the ring. Bring up the level until another frequency starts to ring. Rinse and repeat until you've got a nice monitor level without feedback. Check the eq, if it's really hacked up with a third or more sliders down 6dB or more, flatten it out a bit and lower the level. A hacked up monitor won't cut through anything, regardless of level. And don't worry about a big beefy wedge sound. That just contributes to stage buildup. I used to play in one club where this one sound guy would be setting up the monitors to where they sounded like an FM DJ as he did his mic checks, then there would be feedback all night. Another guy in the same club would set a thinner sound and ring them out properly. Everything sounded quieter and clearer on stage and you could hear the singing well with no feedback.

[suedesound]

if you're not familiar with ringing out monitors have the house guy do it, or hopefully you have a monitor engineer then you don't even have to worry about it. i've got plenty of suggestions but it all depends on what you're dealing with, check back in with more info.

[suedesound]

This probably isn't what anyone wants to hear, but if there's a house engineer, maybe bow out respectfully and let him take care of it so your inexperience doesn't ruin their gig.

I see bands bring 'their guy' to gigs all the time and I'm watching their hands tremble as they turn knobs on muted channels. If you're looking for the experience, tell the house engineer the honest truth and ask him to let you observe. That's a good way to start. I'm much more willing to help a guest engineer who states clearly "I don't know what the **** I'm doing" instead of the ones who pretend they do, when they clearly don't.

so true, i had a band that brought two engineers with them that clearly didn't know anything (i think they just started school and good friends with the band), they ended up just watching me and adjusting the tap tempo on the delay for the set.

another guy who is a great studio engineer and occasionally gets asked to mix live for bands i've worked with a few times at one club. we hit it off the first time he came in because he said "i'm gonna let you deal with monitors and everything else, just let me mix the FOH for the set and be here in case something or i f#ck up"