RME Fireface 800, Anyone using these for locations?

newrob1 · 27th February 2006

I put this one on another area here but thought since it is a live recording rig someone here might share my problem. As I pass my HD24 through the Fireface via Lightpipe it sounds fine but when I playback the tracks I have clicks, pops, and dropouts. This is in Vegas and Cubase SX and I have played with buffer size with only marginal improvement. This happens whether I use analog or ADAT inputs.
Any relevant and educated advice would be greatly appreciated!

**Remoteness** · 27th February 2006

It sounds like a clocking error...

How are you addressing this?

newrob1 · 27th February 2006

This was what I thought also but I verified that both Fireface units are set to slave and syncing off of the ADAT inputs. The digital state lights indicate sync on all three inputs and the control panel has a feature called "sync check" that indicate all three ADAT inputs I am using are truly sync'd. I even tried making on of the Firefaces a Master and sending word clock out of it to both the second Fireface and the HD24. Same problem. Please advise and thanks for your initial response.

**Reptil** · 27th February 2006

you have another firewire device connected?
on my DAW I had a Lacie D2 (R.I.P.) on the 800 bus and the fireface on the 400 bus
seems on my G4 these busses are controlled by the same chip, or share the same pipe.
apple is not really clear on this (last G4 so could have the G5 firewire problems)

anyway, the Lacie died and now all is good. fireface with latest update is rocksolid.
I had nasty spikes whenever the Lacie was active. didn't matter what clocking or routing from the fireface.

newrob1 · 27th February 2006

The only firewire devices are the 2 Fireface 800's. I am on a pc laptop 3.8 Ghz P4 w/ 2 gig ram. I am using a pcmcia Firewire 400 card with this setup.

sunflute · 27th February 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by newrob1

The only firewire devices are the 2 Fireface 800's. I am on a pc laptop 3.8 Ghz P4 w/ 2 gig ram. I am using a pcmcia Firewire 400 card with this setup.

I seem to remember reading in the RME forum that if you are using more than one fireface you need them to connect to a firewire 800 port or card. Firewire 400 is good enough for one fireface but if you go up to 2 of them you will need the added bandwidth of firewire 800.

I hope this helps,

Peace
Marco

**Reptil** · 27th February 2006

yes that is correct.
however it does make a difference how many channels i/o are connected I think.
only two firefaces (with limited bandwith) is no different from one fireface and an adat converter hooked up to it. (as far as the amount of bandwith is concerned)
But this is a guessing game. Why don't you email RME?
good luck

Don S · 27th February 2006

Wow - that IS disturbing! First off - Are you monitoring via the totalmix or monitoring the outputs of Cubase or other software? I can see how direct monitor would not show this problem until playback. There shouldn't be any clocking issues as all the ADAT signals are coming from the same unit. However, on playback the 2 FF800's are not synced unless you get a Word clock cable, then sync one off the other via word in. I hope this helps.

newrob1 · 27th February 2006

Actually RME includes a feature called AutoSync. You put both Fireface 800's in slave mode and they will sync to any available incoming digital signal. In my case I set both units to sync to the HD24 via Adat in's. I am monitoring via Totalmix and have also confirmed the clicks and dropouts through the laptops internal soundcard. As far as the FW 800 issue using more than one unit, I am using a pcmcia FW400 card with 2 outputs. Is it safe to assume considering the bus speed of pcmcia that the 2 outputs would both be able to support 400 Mbps and not split 400 between them? I ask this because the pcmcia bus will support FW 800. I have noticed that if I set the buffer to 512 that the anomoly is minimal but noticable, any other setting provides an increase in artifacts.

Thanks to all who are contributing!

slaves666 · 28th February 2006

You can try using 1 of the fireface units in standalone mode, throught the adat of the other one to take bandwidth off the buss....

newrob1 · 28th February 2006

What I thought that I stated previously was that If I try to do any more than 2 tracks I get artifacts on playback. Anyone know the max. recommended length of a firewire bus? Also someone posted that they heard there were known issues with RME FW cables that shipped with the Fireface. Can anyone else confirm that?

**Reptil** · 28th February 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaves666

You can try using 1 of the fireface units in standalone mode, throught the adat of the other one to take bandwidth off the buss....

yes that would be the best start.
one first
then the second one through adat (use clock through adat)
computer---fw---ff#1slave---adat---ff#2master
only after this I would try the chain on firewire only, with clocking through BNC.

I have not heard of any bad RME cables. Just was about to buy their 5 mtr fw400 cable, so any update on this would be appreciated.

the max of the firewire bus should be above the amount of traffic generated by one fireface. If we can believe RME.
here 16 ch 96KHz 24 bit + headphone out or 16ch 44.1 24bit + spdif + headphone out runs fine. My G4 bites the dust when running 96 Khz with plugs though

(the machine is growing a beard, and getting "old" LOL)
If you check the manual, you'll see a recommended limit. In principle you can run a number of firefaces off a fw800 bus.
Did you contact RME yet? What did they say? They are really fast in replies mostly. (at least they were last year)
And really helpful for a small company with such a large turnover. efficient.
thumbsup

newrob1 · 28th February 2006

You know Reptil, I haven't gotten in touch with RME yet, which is where I should have started, because I have been so turned off by a lot of manufacturers support systems. I will give them a try, I do like the knowledge base here and sometimes it is more of a personal quest to solve the problem on your own before calling the BOSS. I have caught up on projects for now so the urgency is only that of wanting to conquer the problem. I will say I have owned some good interfaces in the past but the sound of these Firefaces (2 track anyway) sounds GREAT! Thanks for keeping up and trying to help me out and same to everyone else trying to solve this one.

**Reptil** · 28th February 2006

of course
that is also why we are here right
glad I could be of some help

dominicperry · 4th March 2006

Just a guess really -
There are some cable length considerations. If I remember correctly, the cable from the computer to the first Fireface must be shorter than the one from the first fireface to the second.

COMPUTER--------FIREFACE-----------------------------------------------FIREFACE

Dominic

gpcramseysoral · 4th March 2006

If I were you I would hook the RME's up to a totally different computer and eliminate them as the issue. My gut feeling is that it's your hard drive. That stands to logic to me. You've eliminated clocking and buffering as your issue. Also the general specs of your system seem up to par. That only leaves a poor performing hard drive. Especially since if I understand you correctly your using your system drive to record to. I'm sure you know that's a no no!

Also if I understand you correctly you don't have built in firewire? If so use the build in firewire to connect an external drive, the internal drive for your applications, and the pcmcia slot to connect your interfaces. If you don't have a way to separate your system from your recording drive your wasting your time! I hate to be the bearer of bad news and realize a new computer is more then a notion. Unfortunatly this is my two cents.

newrob1 · 5th March 2006

I follow what you are saying but the truth is that I was using this same machine with 3 Motu 828 MKII's and didn't have these issues. I just wanted to upgrade my interfaces to the RME's and the problems started. If I monitor the drive and cpu usage meters in Cubase there is less than 50% when using 24 tracks. I am using the same USB2.0 drive that I used when I had a Digi 002 and worked with 24 tracks ( I just dumped them in 8 tracks at a time via lightpipe) I agree that putting the RME's and the drive on another computer and seeing if I get the same results. As far as getting a new machine, why? This one specs as a P4 3.8 GHz w/ 2gig of ram and a 7200 rpm 100gig drive. I did hear back from RME saying that the FW400 bus would not support multiple interfaces. Does anyone know if a pcmcia FW400 card with 2 6pin ports treats them as discrete ports. ie both busses will support 400 MBps?
Again thanks for the responses.

27th February 2006	#4
Reptil Moderator Joined: Dec 2004 Location: in a low orbit Posts: 19,390 1 Review written	you have another firewire device connected? on my DAW I had a Lacie D2 (R.I.P.) on the 800 bus and the fireface on the 400 bus seems on my G4 these busses are controlled by the same chip, or share the same pipe. apple is not really clear on this (last G4 so could have the G5 firewire problems) anyway, the Lacie died and now all is good. fireface with latest update is rocksolid. I had nasty spikes whenever the Lacie was active. didn't matter what clocking or routing from the fireface. __________________ CONVERTERS FOR SALE HERE: link

27th February 2006	#8
Don S Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,376	Wow - that IS disturbing! First off - Are you monitoring via the totalmix or monitoring the outputs of Cubase or other software? I can see how direct monitor would not show this problem until playback. There shouldn't be any clocking issues as all the ADAT signals are coming from the same unit. However, on playback the 2 FF800's are not synced unless you get a Word clock cable, then sync one off the other via word in. I hope this helps. __________________ www.symphonicsound.com "The secret of life, though, is falling down seven times and get up eight times." Paulo Coelho

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27th February 2006	#1
newrob1 Gear nut Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 92 Thread Starter	RME Fireface 800, Anyone using these for locations? I put this one on another area here but thought since it is a live recording rig someone here might share my problem. As I pass my HD24 through the Fireface via Lightpipe it sounds fine but when I playback the tracks I have clicks, pops, and dropouts. This is in Vegas and Cubase SX and I have played with buffer size with only marginal improvement. This happens whether I use analog or ADAT inputs. Any relevant and educated advice would be greatly appreciated!

27th February 2006	#2
Remoteness Super Moderator Joined: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,405	It sounds like a clocking error... How are you addressing this?

28th February 2006	#10
slaves666 Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 2,170	You can try using 1 of the fireface units in standalone mode, throught the adat of the other one to take bandwidth off the buss....

4th March 2006	#15
dominicperry Gear interested Joined: Sep 2005 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 14	Just a guess really - There are some cable length considerations. If I remember correctly, the cable from the computer to the first Fireface must be shorter than the one from the first fireface to the second. COMPUTER--------FIREFACE-----------------------------------------------FIREFACE Dominic

4th March 2006	#16
gpcramseysoral Gear nut Joined: Apr 2004 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 97	If I were you I would hook the RME's up to a totally different computer and eliminate them as the issue. My gut feeling is that it's your hard drive. That stands to logic to me. You've eliminated clocking and buffering as your issue. Also the general specs of your system seem up to par. That only leaves a poor performing hard drive. Especially since if I understand you correctly your using your system drive to record to. I'm sure you know that's a no no! Also if I understand you correctly you don't have built in firewire? If so use the build in firewire to connect an external drive, the internal drive for your applications, and the pcmcia slot to connect your interfaces. If you don't have a way to separate your system from your recording drive your wasting your time! I hate to be the bearer of bad news and realize a new computer is more then a notion. Unfortunatly this is my two cents.

5th March 2006	#17
newrob1 Gear nut Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 92 Thread Starter	I follow what you are saying but the truth is that I was using this same machine with 3 Motu 828 MKII's and didn't have these issues. I just wanted to upgrade my interfaces to the RME's and the problems started. If I monitor the drive and cpu usage meters in Cubase there is less than 50% when using 24 tracks. I am using the same USB2.0 drive that I used when I had a Digi 002 and worked with 24 tracks ( I just dumped them in 8 tracks at a time via lightpipe) I agree that putting the RME's and the drive on another computer and seeing if I get the same results. As far as getting a new machine, why? This one specs as a P4 3.8 GHz w/ 2gig of ram and a 7200 rpm 100gig drive. I did hear back from RME saying that the FW400 bus would not support multiple interfaces. Does anyone know if a pcmcia FW400 card with 2 6pin ports treats them as discrete ports. ie both busses will support 400 MBps? Again thanks for the responses.