Recording Upright Acoustic Bass - Help Please

[OKden]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

Try a RCA 77DX....It rocks for that type of bass....

Absolutely. Heck, that's what Bill Black used!

[roonsbane]

Originally Posted by #19

Shoeps mic with MK41 Hyper cardiod capsule sound fabulous! I use DI for info 150hz and below and hi pass the mic about 160.

Royer 122 is also perfect!

The Schoeps and Royer 122 are my go to bass mics on Bass though I haven't tried the Hipass thing. The 122 works well ass a contrasting sound to the schoeps that gives a lot of choices if used together. I sometimes use a dpa clip on the tailpiece that hold the shoeps MK41 capsule which is extended by the shoeps cable extension to a CMC6. The DPA wont always clip on every tailpiece though.

I recently did a live duet recording with Dave Holland and vibes using his DI along with my Manley reference cardioid. Through Grace 801R and a distressor The manley is very big. I am told he will release this recording.

I have a friend who gets great bass sounds. I steal his bass setups often. He often uses the manley reference card. with a U87 or as an alternative a RCA 44. He runs them through fern pre's and into his manley varimu comp. onto Radar. If the bass isn't really tight, he will use his Daking pre's instead. This sounds clearer and more aggresive.

These have been some of my benchmark bass recordings

Cameron

[fifthcircle]

Just used a Coles 4038 on a bass performance last night. Sounded fantastic...

Also, when I've had to mount a mic on the bridge and not have the player complain, a quality lav mic can be a wonderful thing. I would imagine that the DPA 4061 would be great. I've used them on Violins, Violas and Celli, but not bass. I have used the Sanken lav (COS-11 is the number?) and had good results mounting on the bridge. If Iremember, Sanken makes a little rubber mount that you can wedge in one of the holes of the bridge- it is so small that it shouldn't hurt the sound of the instrument at all.

--Ben

[mtstudios@charter]

Used a Royer 121 at bridge (wish I had the 122) and a KM185 on fingerboard. Neve 1073's and GML 8900 compressed pretty hard.
Sounded like the Bass.

www.bluethumbproductions.com

[jruberto]

I found this thread a few days ago and tried the technique shown here today, sticking a mic up under the bridge. I tried bubble wrap but thought it was noisy, like it wouldn't settle down. Maybe I'm just impatient. Found a plush toy in the utility room and wrapped his little legs around my SM94 and it held it right in there perfectly. The mic comes right out of his plushy little butt. (ill try to post a pic here)

In addition, I tried out my new Cascade Victor about 6" off the bridge. Very rich and incredibly warm, perfectly smooth; I am pleased. I have read something about a mod to remove some of the protective foam to get a little more detail, I'm curious about that.

The two sources sound very complementary. I did roll off the lows on the bridge mic and invert its phase. Very little EQ needed, notched out a couple ringers and have a great, solid, balanced sound. The music was bluegrass-y, just a little slappy.

And yes, thats a Realist pickup on my bass and I don't really like it for recording. I never wind up using it when I do take a DI, it sounds honky and weird to me. Its pretty great for live, though, love it for that.

This is my first post here, i've been getting a lot of great tips and advice from these forums, so I thought I'd say hello. --jim

p.s. that rubber band technique is madness.

[Remoteness]

...And, why does jruberto think the rubber band technique is madness?

[jruberto]

I tried unsuccessfully for a while to get the mic suspended with rubber bands before trying any bubble wrap or padding, its definitely the superior method.

Not happening, not for me anyway. Ran out of time. I couldn't hear a difference in the acoustic sound of the instrument with the doll holding the mic so I went with it. Not a real high quality instrument in this case. I'm really loving the sounds I got, but I doubt I will be allowed to stick that in the nicer basses.

If you offered hints on that technique, I'd find it useful. It's damn impressive. Thanks.
--j

[Remoteness]

One of the main reasons why we used the rubber band technique is because most musicians do not want anything touching their instrument, especially a piece of foam or toy doll. They feel it changes the sound of the instrument.

The trick to successfully using rubber bands as a suspension device is to make sure they are strong enough to handle the weight of the mic. Equal tension between the two bands is a must.

[Remoteness]

...But I must say, my new favorite upright bass mic placement solution for (close mic) live concert performance is mic'ing the bass with an sE IRF filter. This device is simple fantastic.

We first had a chance to work with this system this past August during the 2008 JVC Jazz Festival in Newport, Rhode Island.

For this performance an MK41 was used with the IRF.
Keep in mind that only SD mics can be used with this filter.

I loved it so much I ordered two of these puppies and I'm waiting for two studio kits that will include a total of ten sE IRFs.

IMO, there's no going back when you're tracking a live band on stage!

[xj32]

Wow, old threads revisited...oddly enough I just had another session with a full size beautiful upright.

Going for an old jazz tone, I used:

Right F hole - Peluso 2247LE, Chandler TG-2
Left F Hole - Lauten Horizon, Millennia HV3
Neck / finger position - Neumann KM-84, Chandler TG-2


During mixdown I had to throw the two F hole mics out of phase (to basically put them back in phase) and the deep sound of the bass, panned with a touch of the finger slap was just beautiful.

XJ

[Douglas Whates]

I'm curious - what are the rest of the mics? How are they attached?

Originally Posted by Remoteness

...But I must say, my new favorite upright bass mic placement solution for (close mic) live concert performance is mic'ing the bass with an sE IRF filter. This device is simple fantastic.

We first had a chance to work with this system this past August during the 2008 JVC Jazz Festival in Newport, Rhode Island.

For this performance an MK41 was used with the IRF.
Keep in mind that only SD mics can be used with this filter.

I loved it so much I ordered two of these puppies and I'm waiting for two studio kits that will include a total of ten sE IRFs.

IMO, there's no going back when you're tracking a live band on stage!

[peeder]

I got good results with a Mojave MA-200 up near the fingers where most of the treble is and a ribbon mic down below the f-hole a couple feet off the floor, where most of the bass comes out.

[Douglas Whates]

To answer my own question...

Schertler Dyn-B and AMT25.

Originally Posted by naturalstudio

I'm curious - what are the rest of the mics? How are they attached?

[ajcdrum]

Reviving an old thread, rather than starting yet another upright bass thread...

I'm recording Ben Wendel's group (Saxophonist from Kneebody) at small club in LA this weekend. Last night was night 1, tonight is night 2. The band is ridiculous: Nate Wood (fellow slut), Adam Benjamin, Tigran Hamasyan, Larry Koonse and Dave Robare.

I had the luxury of extra setup time last night so I decided to try out a new technique on the bass. Using a 1" by 2" piece of foam, I wedged a DPA 4061 in the left F-Hole (towards the bottom). This, combined with a DPA 4099 clamped to the bridge is it for me. The holy grail of live bass micing! I think I'm in love.

I was worried the 4061 was going to sound like a boomy mess, but to my surprise, it sounded very pleasing! Very full, round, deep sound, with a touch of wood. Only thing it lacked was a little finger/string sound. Mix in the 4099 (about 1:2) and BAM, the perfect bass sound with almost no drum bleed!

Check it out here: Quick Full Group by achaloff on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Just a faders up bounce, so no balance comments please . Bass comes in around 1:18.

[leddy]

Wow that sounds good. I would not have expected anything close to the f hole to sound like that. Depends a lot on the bass though...

[Douglas Whates]

Originally Posted by ajcdrum

I was worried the 4061 was going to sound like a boomy mess, but to my surprise, it sounded very pleasing! Very full, round, deep sound, with a touch of wood. Only thing it lacked was a little finger/string sound. Mix in the 4099 (about 1:2) and BAM, the perfect bass sound with almost no drum bleed!

Nice full sound! But, as already commented, the success of such a placement will depend a *lot* on the bass and the player. Also, the resulting sound when combining the two mic's will never be the same. But, for this bass, and this player -- great sound and very nice that the bleed is kept to a minimum!

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Douglas Whates

Nice full sound! But, as already commented, the success of such a placement will depend a *lot* on the bass and the player. Also, the resulting sound when combining the two mic's will never be the same. But, for this bass, and this player -- great sound and very nice that the bleed is kept to a minimum!

Spot on. I have two basses. One of them can be mic'd up close (close to, but not in the f hole) and sound great. The other has to be mic'd far from the f hole or you get a boomy mess.

I have a DPA 4099 and it's excellent for the task. The other thing I like is either a Beyer M88 or M160 in a small Reflexion filter pointing at the bridge or near where the sound post contacts the top on the side of the bridge.

[springer]

Good one - I like seeing success with the PITA "double" bass.
One thing I think you all should clarify - DPA 4099-? They make like 12 different 4099 series. I have had experience with the 4099b and it is by far the best solution for what I do - location work in cramped, close quarters (right next to drums).
However have gotten decent results from C414B-ULS in hyper matched up with micing the amp (no DI).
No matter how you slice it, double bass is the real beast. Unfortunately it usually makes or breaks the recording as well...

[Remoteness]

Upright bass can make or break your recording...

This is why I grab as many input sources as possible; at times (especially Jazz) I've used at least four inputs for bass.

I want as many options as possible.

[GZsound]

Since I run sound at mulitple bluegrass events every year, I probably end up seeing a hundred bass players on stage every year.

I have fairly simple solutions for getting a decent sound out of an upright bass.

First off, the SM57 works fine, but won't stay put in a foam surround. I use an SM58 with a foam surround that works just fine. It's called a "stuff" mic and the most common use in live bluegrass.

Take a three inch square of foam five inches long, make a trumpet shaped hole in it and slice one side so the mic just slips in. Sits behind the string guard and works about as good as anything.

I have had a couple of players use a "C" clamp that holds an SM57 pointed at the F hole and that works well.

A couple of local players use the AT35 clip on with good results too.

If they won't let me attach anything to their bass, I use an AT 4047 pointing at the bridge from a couple feet away. This causes problems when they can't stand still or if they need bass in the monitors, but still works all right in live use. Better in the studio.

If they have a pickup, I use a Fishman ProEQ, or LR Baggs Para DI unit as a preamp. Both are much better than basic DI's since they have tone and volume controls.

But if the bass isn't set up properly nothing works except waiting until they are finished.

[jayfield]

Love the acoustic!

[Remoteness]

As I type this post, I'm using an M88 without a Reflection filter on Christian McBride's upright with great results.

I'm blending in Christian's AMT clip on mic and I'm very happy with the results.

Originally Posted by leddy

Spot on. I have two basses. One of them can be mic'd up close (close to, but not in the f hole) and sound great. The other has to be mic'd far from the f hole or you get a boomy mess.

I have a DPA 4099 and it's excellent for the task. The other thing I like is either a Beyer M88 or M160 in a small Reflexion filter pointing at the bridge or near where the sound post contacts the top on the side of the bridge.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

As I type this post, I'm using an M88 without a Reflection filter on Christian McBride's upright with great results.

I'm blending in Christian's AMT clip on mic and I'm very happy with the results.

As I type this post, I am green with envy (of both you and CMB).

Can't wait to hear it. Let us know about it when it's available.

[Enginearing]

Originally Posted by GZsound

First off, the SM57 works fine, but won't stay put in a foam surround. I use an SM58 with a foam surround that works just fine. It's called a "stuff" mic and the most common use in live bluegrass.

Take a three inch square of foam five inches long, make a trumpet shaped hole in it and slice one side so the mic just slips in. Sits behind the string guard and works about as good as anything.

Can you please elaborate what you mean by a string guard?

[Remoteness]

I'm recording a bunch of nights with Monty Alexander for the next two weeks.

Tuesday and Wednesday of this week I was capturing four sets of "Triple Treat Revisited: Monty with Christian McBride and Russell Malone."

These cats were shredding hard.
They were so on point, they didn't need set lists.
They were just bagging them out, one after the other all night long!

This should be out by September 2012, but...
We have scheduled in a few other recordings to mix and compile for the client before this, so you never know.

Originally Posted by leddy

As I type this post, I am green with envy (of both you and CMB).

Can't wait to hear it. Let us know about it when it's available.

[tacitus]

How times change! Back in the day (let's say, late '60s, early '70s) I knew a few jazzmen so I went to quite a lot of gigs. I don't remember any preciousness about mics or about touching the bass - the usual method was to wrap whatever mic in a duster and shove it anywhere it wouldn't fall out. And I got the feeling the duster was just as good at hiding the crappy mike as protecting the bass.

Granted this was live rather than recording, but we're talking about some pretty good players with occasionally really nice instruments. Whatever the mics did or didn't do to the sound, they certainly didn't lose the vibe. And this was in relatively remote parts of the UK, not in the states or even in London.

[ajfarber]

I am now using an old EV664 just below the f-hole on the G-string side. This allows the bass player to be next to the drums with very little leakage. For recording I blend in a SDC mike like a KM54 or KM84 on the plucking hand for some extra finger noise.

As Steve has discovered, the m88 is quite good too. Lots of low-end on the m88 but good off-axis rejection.