Violin / vocal mic

[Charles Cook]

I require a good vocal/ violin mic.

My set up right now is;
C 414 b-uls and\ or at4051
-buzz audio ma-2,2 mic pre
-uad-1
-cubase SX

Main Vocalist

Female
-Soft dynamics
-silky mid tone
-folk,bluegrass style

male
-soft
-raspy,mid tone
-folk,new county, classic rock style

The violin is made by Roth($5000).Is played and sounds more like a violin then a country fiddle.I use it for Jazz country Bluegrass folk...

Mics I'm looking at are;tlm103,tlm170,m149,at4060,aea r84.

Can't really aford the 170 or 149.

So let me know what you think? THANKS

[e-cue]

I friggin' LOVE my AEA84 on stringed instruments and female esthreo style vocals. The male vocals, it will be hit or miss. If he sings percussive and choppy, I doubt it will work as good.

[Beezoboy]

Yeah I would go the ribbon route too. I have never used the R84 but Royer Sf-1's sound nice indeed. Also I would consider a nice small diaphram like a Schoeps for violin.

None of these mics would really suit male vocals all that well though, maybe you should go for the R84.

Beez

[Dave Martin]

I haven't had a chance to play with the new AEA ribbon, but I've had very good luck on violin/fiddle with a Gefell M-582 with an M 62 capsule. The ribbon may well be anb excellent idea, though - the biggest problem I have with recording violin, unless I'm in a really nice sounding room, is that if I get the mic closer than a couple of feet away, it gets screechy. If the mic is more than a couple of feet away from the violin, the room sound becomes a large part of what goes to tape. The M-582 is the best I've found for close miking.

[chessparov]

And now, a suggestion from the "cheap seats"...

Try the EV RE15 (or RE18).

Recall an old RAP post by Bob Ohlsson indicating they work excellently on violin. Bob has also commented that they
are a fine microphone for many vocals too elsewhere.

When singing through my "modded" (see below) EV RE16,
the tone reminds me of old RCA Studio records ala Nelson,
Presley, et al.

Sure love to try the AEA R84 sometime.

Chris

P.S. Have two old RE16's, one has the foam removed to make it
effectively a RE15 (that's the "mod"!)

[chessparov]

Just remembered...

If you'd like to hear some examples of the RE15 on record,
two easy sources to find would be Elvis' 1968 "Elvis" Comeback
Special soundtrack, and ANY Dolly Parton vocal track recorded while she was at RCA. Elvis used the RE15 for vocals when
playing guitar on that special, and the RE16 as a hand held
when not.

Chris

[3rdpath]

i love ribbons on violin...sweet....used some vintage rca's on a record awhile back and was impressed. i've also gotten good results from at4033's( a good poor-man's route). i'm not big on the tube sound when tracking violin or viola...makes them a little blurry to my ears.

and mic placement and room location are everything! probably more important than the mic's used IMHO. when you find the sweet location, mark the footprints with tape...those violinists tend to stroll like they're playing in a cheesy italian restaurant.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by 3rdpath

and mic placement and room location are everything! probably more important than the mic's used IMHO. when you find the sweet location, mark the footprints with tape...those violinists tend to stroll like they're playing in a cheesy italian restaurant.

My guys sit down...

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by Dave Martin
My guys sit down...

lucky you...my violist sits but the violinist refuses( and she's good enough to get that concession).

now if i could just figure out how to stop the mandolinist's nose from whistling...maybe leave a box of kleenex and sudafed by his chair.

[Charles Cook]

Thanks for your replies.

E-que -Do you find the R28 clean and warm ,not as coloured like a tube mic?

Dave Martin-I don't do alot of close miking.The music I play is mostly acoustical ,It doesn't require alot of close miking or bright mics to get on top of everything.I find myself recording violin,mando and lead acoustic guitar 2-3' from the mics to get a natural sound that fits into the recording.
I did a search on the gefell,I don't think they make that mic any more.
And yes. I had to spend alot of time working on the room and I'm still not happy with it.To many high frequancies bouncing around,and the mids are crap.Next month I'm taking the walls apart,getting rid of the squareness and standing waves in the room.Putting in a hard wood floor,and thinking of using more wood on the walls,instead of gyp rock.

3rdpath- I always record violin in stereo,so if I start to sway It adds to the effect of the recording,instead of having volume problems.And I find the Buzz pre amp works great for violin dynamics.


Thanks for the reply's I really appreciate them.

If more people have used ribbon mics and the r28.I would like to know how they worked out for you.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by Charles Cook


Dave Martin-I don't do alot of close miking.The music I play is mostly acoustical ,It doesn't require alot of close miking or bright mics to get on top of everything.I find myself recording violin,mando and lead acoustic guitar 2-3' from the mics to get a natural sound that fits into the recording.
I did a search on the gefell,I don't think they make that mic any more.
And yes. I had to spend alot of time working on the room and I'm still not happy with it.To many high frequancies bouncing around,and the mids are crap.Next month I'm taking the walls apart,getting rid of the squareness and standing waves in the room.Putting in a hard wood floor,and thinking of using more wood on the walls,instead of gyp rock.

Well, with fiddle, 2 feet CAN be close miked, especially if you're putting the mic abolve the player. The Gefell I mentioned is not made anymore, but they seem to be fairly readily available - Ebay and vintage dealers, as well as the Mic Shop.

Concerning your recording space, good luck - it seems that it's really a matter of hit and miss with building out acoustic spaces.

[Richie Monroe]

I've had very good luck recording strings and main vox with B.L.U.E. Kiwi. I've used it for some time as a main vocal mic. I put it up for violin/viola in desperation because my high-end violinist didn't like the sound of a C414B-ULS. She fell instantly in love with the sound of the Kiwi. She's Audrey White, Professor at the New England Conservatory, so you can bet I take her opinion seriously. She thought the C-4's produced the sound her colleagues would expect to hear, and the Kiwi out of the mainstream, but with excellent detail. In the end, for 4 cuts, we used the Kiwi, and Oktava MC012's. I thought of the Kiwi because it's a very good vocal mic that's pretty good on strings.-Richie

[PlugHead]

FWIW,

I've used Royer R-121's, and Coles 4038 ribbon mics often on strings, and it can be a great solution for screechy condensers in close micing situations. The Royer sounds a bit better, but would not be right for distant micing violin - you would need a lot of gain if it isn't on top of the instrument. As for vocals, I will use it as a 2nd mic for some female vocalists that are very thin sounding - blend it in to add girth, but is not a versatile vocal mic per se, tho they can take a helluvalot of EQ before sounding strange

A small diaphram condenser can work as a more distant mic, but the room has to sound good: too many awkward reflections can make them unusable in many situations. Most used would be KM 184, 451's, Oktava 012's - I would like to hear the Kiwi: it might be more versatile, esp. as a potential vocal mic, tho rarely one mic does everything well...

Haven't tried the AEA 84, but would love to get my hands on one of them too. I'll have a Sank modded Beyer M160 soon to try out - heard they are well worth the investment, particularly if you have one that needs a ribbon replaced

Ribbon mics are a godsend in the digital age...

[littledog]

No one has voted for the 4060 yet, but that might be just the mic that fits into your budget. It's not at all edgy, so should work reasonably well on violin. if you are looking for a C12 type sound on your vocals, it won't do that... but if you like a darker warmer U47ish type it might be just fine.

(Disclaimer: before anyone throws a fit, i'm not claiming it sounds like a U47. Just that in the C12 vs. u47 spectrum, it is closer to the latter.)

[David R.]

Best result I've had was with an RCA 77dx. Old ribbon that was re-ribboned. Until I get my hands on an AEA, I will not even waiste time putting up another mic for violin.

Unless someone gives me some mics to try...