Mic Pres for acoustic guitar recording

Roadworthy · 23rd February 2006, 04:00 PM

Thanks for all the great info on this site. I genuinely appreciate it.

If you were going to spend 2500 to 3000 on two mic pres to record acoustic guitar (specifically--about 70% with a pick and 30% with fingers) what would you select. I have a decent selection of mics--but no ribbon mics yet. The guitars are very nice dreadnoughts: one, rosewood, and the other two mahogany.

Again, thanks for your insights...

Gefells=>???????=>Apogee Rosetta 200=>Digi 002=>ProTools LE

boboji · 23rd February 2006, 04:15 PM

I use Gefell M300's into a John Hardy M1. Luscious!!!!
I've also heard the Pendulum Tube pre is very good on acoustics as is the Buzz. I'm sure folks will chirp in on the Buzz.

I Lurk · 23rd February 2006, 04:27 PM

Daking are nice with acoustic guitars.

regards

chief · 23rd February 2006, 05:00 PM

A pair of Calrec PQ series or 1161 would be great. Nice EQ an extra bonus. Similar to Neve 1081 in sound I think. Get a discrete pair. I see them on eBay from time to time.

Midlandmorgan · 23rd February 2006, 05:12 PM

ADesigns Pacifica (or P1 in the cards) sound magnificent...we easily hear the differences in wood and body size using the P1 and either a Peluso 2247 or Josphson C42.

haven't worked with Gefells. yet...

hurricaneE · 23rd February 2006, 07:55 PM

I've had great luck with the Hardy, and even better luck with the TG-2. You can hear the TG-2 with a U-87 and Royer 122 on an acoustic at

http://www.tomforsey.com/pages/Clips/clips_tst.html

Not great files, but there they are.

-E

PS If you dig into the files, yes, I know, the drums sound like ass.

Velvetfreddy · 23rd February 2006, 08:00 PM

API ain't exactly chump change.

neve1073 · 23rd February 2006, 08:05 PM

Good suggestions on mic amps.
Roadworthy, I got your pm about which mic pre to use for your dreadnought guitars. It does sound like you need to upgrade to a good quality pre. The other suggestions are all excellent. I've been using mainly neve, telefunken or chandler pres because those are the nicest outboard pres I have easy access to. I've heard great results from the hardy and from manley on collings guitars too.

If I were you, I would search for info about pendulum, john hardy, and brent averill pres among many others.

I think, though, the most important things about recording acoustic guitars well are microphones and placement and room.

good luck

neve1073 · 23rd February 2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurricaneE

I've had great luck with the Hardy, and even better luck with the TG-2. You can hear the TG-2 with a U-87 and Royer 122 on an acoustic at

http://www.tomforsey.com/pages/Clips/clips_tst.html

Not great files, but there they are.

-E

PS If you dig into the files, yes, I know, the drums sound like ass.

the tg2 is a great deal if you don't need eq (which you might to cut som boominess). Tg2 is two channels, well within your budget and really nice sounding.

Pohaku · 23rd February 2006, 08:26 PM

Pendulum and C42s (or a pair of KM84s if I could find another one at a decent price).

StudioKing · 23rd February 2006, 10:58 PM

Daking 52270 is nice on acoustic guitars.

NathanEldred · 24th February 2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boboji

I'm sure folks will chirp in on the Buzz.

It's a bigger than being there sound. You can hear the wood in the guitar aging with that preamp it's so detailed.

hurricaneE · 24th February 2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audionickw

shameless promotion

Of what? That's not my material, just a recording of a dude playing an acoustic that I made using a Chandler TG-2. Seemed pertinent to the topic; it's the only time I've posted links to anything I've done. Spell out the faux pas for me, 'cause I don't see it. -E

wwittman · 24th February 2006, 06:24 AM

SO...
you've now had what? 20 different suggestions?

there IS no answer...

other than: use whatever good preamp you use on EVERYTHING else as well.

preamps are not determined by the instrument they are used on.
it's SILLY, as a concept.

and the fact that you can get an endless stream of divergent opinions only proves that.

Yetti · 24th February 2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadworthy

Thanks for all the great info on this site. I genuinely appreciate it.

If you were going to spend 2500 to 3000 on two mic pres to record acoustic guitar (specifically--about 70% with a pick and 30% with fingers) what would you select. I have a decent selection of mics--but no ribbon mics yet. The guitars are very nice dreadnoughts: one, rosewood, and the other two mahogany.

Again, thanks for your insights...

Gefells=>???????=>Apogee Rosetta 200=>Digi 002=>ProTools LE

You may want to consider listening to the MIC PRE CD done by Lynn Fuston of 3D Audio.
http://www.3daudioinc.com/3daudio_prelp.html
There are many different high quality mic pre comparisons done with acoustic guitar. The John Hardy M-1, Buzz Audio, and Great River all sounded great! I pick the John Hardy.
Just my 2 cents-

natpub · 24th February 2006, 06:47 AM

Oooh, Audionickw, another person for my rapidly expanding ignore list! man, this month is full of em. BTW, I thought that kind of name-calling violated the forum rules :-(

NathanEldred · 24th February 2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by audionickw

this guy whittman's a fag don't listen to him,man!

Be nice...everybody has a right to their opinion.

ImJohn · 24th February 2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwittman

SO...
you've now had what? 20 different suggestions?

there IS no answer...

other than: use whatever good preamp you use on EVERYTHING else as well.

preamps are not determined by the instrument they are used on.
it's SILLY, as a concept.

and the fact that you can get an endless stream of divergent opinions only proves that.

Man . . . that is a pretty piss poor attitude to have around these here parts son! This IS GEARSLUTZ ya know!!!

If you can't get into a seriously excessive gear buying rampage with only scant and irrational justifications . . . .a bunch of us may have to have to come over there, hold you down and order some sweet stuff for you with your credit cards.

Drumsound · 24th February 2006, 07:39 AM

Great River MP2H is lovely on all guitars (and most other sources too!).

24th February 2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumsound

Great River MP2H is lovely on all guitars (and most other sources too!).

I'll second that.

I'm doing a record now with a nylon-string guitarist, and the MP-2MH using the transformerless outs and running a BLUE Mouse at the 12th fret and a KM-184 on the lower bout is a pretty nice sound...

MG

neve1073 · 24th February 2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwittman

SO...
you've now had what? 20 different suggestions?

there IS no answer...

other than: use whatever good preamp you use on EVERYTHING else as well.

preamps are not determined by the instrument they are used on.
it's SILLY, as a concept.

and the fact that you can get an endless stream of divergent opinions only proves that.

I think I agree with you there, wwittman. Roadworthy, get yourself a good preamp (partial list provided on this thread) and get on with the business/pleasure of recording! Sometimes there is too much fussing over preamps.

(So, does that mean I'm gay?

What will I tell my wife???)

drmmrboy · 24th February 2006, 10:13 AM

I tracked with all API preamps the other day. (even on acoustic) I must be a fag too... Oh wait... I used Neve for the vocal. I guess that means I go both ways.

Andrew

recky · 24th February 2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwittman

SO...
you've now had what? 20 different suggestions?

there IS no answer...

other than: use whatever good preamp you use on EVERYTHING else as well.

preamps are not determined by the instrument they are used on.
it's SILLY, as a concept.

and the fact that you can get an endless stream of divergent opinions only proves that.

After the "gay bashing" incident on this thread I also feel I have to agree strongly with wwittman. What's with this anal obsession about preamps? There's clean and there's "character", and I'd go for the latter everytime, but it almost doesn't matter. I like pres that are good on everything. I mean, a handful of records have been made on consoles with no external preamps....

Recky

blueman · 24th February 2006, 10:52 AM

Buzz Audio MA2.2

The Great River MP-2MH

was a close second for me. It was hard to decide.

UA 2-610?

- I don't agree (and I own it)

Bryan Talbot · 24th February 2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImJohn

If you can't get into a seriously excessive gear buying rampage with only scant and irrational justifications . . . .a bunch of us may have to have to come over there, hold you down and order some sweet stuff for you with your credit cards.

LOL

beats workin' · 24th February 2006, 02:37 PM

although i'd be happy only using neve or api or ______,
i often use a pair of m300s, thru daking pres for acoustic- nice and clean. if i want the sound to be more forward, i'll use api . the instrument moves a few feet closer to you ( out of the speakers) and has a bit of hair on it. not a subtle difference.
if you don't have an excellent recording space, different pres can create changes in depth and timber, that you would otherwise create by moving mics farther away or using different sounding rooms.. at my place, i don't have that luxury, and use cardoid patterns mostly. cheating, yes, but whatever it takes to get the mix to sit well.
david lawrence

Logan · 24th February 2006, 03:54 PM

William is of course right, there is no pre that is "the guitar pre". That being said the I can report that I have had very good results for the Buzz MA 2.2 with a variety of mics and a variety of accoustic guitars. I but I can't imagine that I'd ever get to the point that I'd describe any pre as my "go to pre" in any specific situation. I do find , as we try things out, with my humble mic cabinet, that the talent often chooses the Buzz as the pre that produces the sound they want, specifically with accoustics. Take care Logan

Roadworthy · 24th February 2006, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the input. I appreciate the insights. To some degree I can see similarities popping up between discussions over preamps and high-end acoustic guitars, specifically the debates over rosewood versus mahogany and Sitka spruce versus Adirondack and so forth. My responses in the instrument world center around this wood is good for this tone (this color) and this wood is good for that tone (that color) and between different builders there is certainly some variance as well.

I suppose with preamps as it is with nicer acoustic guitars, if you pay a certain price you are almost guaranteed a well-built, decent sounding piece--maybe not the "particular sound" you were wanting, but nevertheless a high-quality example of THAT particular sound... It's just up to my set of ears to decide, specifically, what "particular" sound I'm looking for before I buy my preamps.

Does this sound reasonable?

Marlowe · 24th February 2006, 04:37 PM

Chandler Channel/TG-2

Helios Type 69

not_so_new · 24th February 2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurricaneE

I've had great luck with the Hardy, and even better luck with the TG-2. You can hear the TG-2 with a U-87 and Royer 122 on an acoustic at

http://www.tomforsey.com/pages/Clips/clips_tst.html

Not great files, but there they are.

-E

PS If you dig into the files, yes, I know, the drums sound like ass.

Hey Tom (I assume this is Tom?) The guitars on the first sample on your site sounds really great... good stuff man and nice music! Drums are not that bad either.

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23rd February 2006, 04:00 PM	#1
Roadworthy Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 69	Mic Pres for acoustic guitar recording Thanks for all the great info on this site. I genuinely appreciate it. If you were going to spend 2500 to 3000 on two mic pres to record acoustic guitar (specifically--about 70% with a pick and 30% with fingers) what would you select. I have a decent selection of mics--but no ribbon mics yet. The guitars are very nice dreadnoughts: one, rosewood, and the other two mahogany. Again, thanks for your insights... Gefells=>???????=>Apogee Rosetta 200=>Digi 002=>ProTools LE

23rd February 2006, 05:12 PM	#5
Midlandmorgan Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Midland TX Posts: 1,078	ADesigns Pacifica (or P1 in the cards) sound magnificent...we easily hear the differences in wood and body size using the P1 and either a Peluso 2247 or Josphson C42. haven't worked with Gefells. yet... __________________ Ken Morgan Wireline Studio Midland, TX Don't Blame Me, I Just Recorded What You Played

23rd February 2006, 08:00 PM	#7
Velvetfreddy Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashville Posts: 131	API ain't exactly chump change. __________________ www.myspace.com/joemcmahan

23rd February 2006, 08:05 PM	#8
neve1073 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,210	Good suggestions on mic amps. Roadworthy, I got your pm about which mic pre to use for your dreadnought guitars. It does sound like you need to upgrade to a good quality pre. The other suggestions are all excellent. I've been using mainly neve, telefunken or chandler pres because those are the nicest outboard pres I have easy access to. I've heard great results from the hardy and from manley on collings guitars too. If I were you, I would search for info about pendulum, john hardy, and brent averill pres among many others. I think, though, the most important things about recording acoustic guitars well are microphones and placement and room. good luck __________________ =================== "Let's be discrete"

23rd February 2006, 04:15 PM	#2
boboji Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: san diego Posts: 156	I use Gefell M300's into a John Hardy M1. Luscious!!!! I've also heard the Pendulum Tube pre is very good on acoustics as is the Buzz. I'm sure folks will chirp in on the Buzz.

23rd February 2006, 04:27 PM	#3
I Lurk Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 577	Daking are nice with acoustic guitars. regards

23rd February 2006, 05:00 PM	#4
chief Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 91	A pair of Calrec PQ series or 1161 would be great. Nice EQ an extra bonus. Similar to Neve 1081 in sound I think. Get a discrete pair. I see them on eBay from time to time.

23rd February 2006, 07:55 PM	#6
hurricaneE Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 355	I've had great luck with the Hardy, and even better luck with the TG-2. You can hear the TG-2 with a U-87 and Royer 122 on an acoustic at http://www.tomforsey.com/pages/Clips/clips_tst.html Not great files, but there they are. -E PS If you dig into the files, yes, I know, the drums sound like ass.

23rd February 2006, 08:26 PM	#10
Pohaku Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 905	Pendulum and C42s (or a pair of KM84s if I could find another one at a decent price). __________________ Yeah I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job.

23rd February 2006, 10:58 PM	#11
StudioKing Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Not sure Posts: 209	Daking 52270 is nice on acoustic guitars.

24th February 2006, 06:24 AM	#14
wwittman Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New York Posts: 1,598	SO... you've now had what? 20 different suggestions? there IS no answer... other than: use whatever good preamp you use on EVERYTHING else as well. preamps are not determined by the instrument they are used on. it's SILLY, as a concept. and the fact that you can get an endless stream of divergent opinions only proves that. __________________ William Wittman Producer/Engineer (Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield...)

24th February 2006, 06:47 AM	#16
natpub More cowbell! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,710	Oooh, Audionickw, another person for my rapidly expanding ignore list! man, this month is full of em. BTW, I thought that kind of name-calling violated the forum rules :-( __________________ Vibrational Arts, Inc. Blue Sky Way Sonic Sorcery Studios Austin, Texas/Columbus, Ohio

24th February 2006, 07:39 AM	#19
Drumsound Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 3,585	Great River MP2H is lovely on all guitars (and most other sources too!). __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! "If I have to flip flop more than three times in an A/B test to figure out what the difference is, I lose interest in that difference.'--Tchad Blake

24th February 2006, 10:13 AM	#22
drmmrboy Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 1,819	I tracked with all API preamps the other day. (even on acoustic) I must be a fag too... Oh wait... I used Neve for the vocal. I guess that means I go both ways. Andrew

24th February 2006, 10:52 AM	#24
blueman Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 172	Buzz Audio MA2.2 The Great River MP-2MH was a close second for me. It was hard to decide. UA 2-610? - I don't agree (and I own it)

24th February 2006, 02:37 PM	#26
beats workin' Gear addict Join Date: May 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 479	although i'd be happy only using neve or api or ______, i often use a pair of m300s, thru daking pres for acoustic- nice and clean. if i want the sound to be more forward, i'll use api . the instrument moves a few feet closer to you ( out of the speakers) and has a bit of hair on it. not a subtle difference. if you don't have an excellent recording space, different pres can create changes in depth and timber, that you would otherwise create by moving mics farther away or using different sounding rooms.. at my place, i don't have that luxury, and use cardoid patterns mostly. cheating, yes, but whatever it takes to get the mix to sit well. david lawrence

24th February 2006, 03:54 PM	#27
Logan Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Elm Tree Ont. Canada Posts: 293	William is of course right, there is no pre that is "the guitar pre". That being said the I can report that I have had very good results for the Buzz MA 2.2 with a variety of mics and a variety of accoustic guitars. I but I can't imagine that I'd ever get to the point that I'd describe any pre as my "go to pre" in any specific situation. I do find , as we try things out, with my humble mic cabinet, that the talent often chooses the Buzz as the pre that produces the sound they want, specifically with accoustics. Take care Logan

24th February 2006, 04:16 PM	#28
Roadworthy Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 69	Thanks for the input. I appreciate the insights. To some degree I can see similarities popping up between discussions over preamps and high-end acoustic guitars, specifically the debates over rosewood versus mahogany and Sitka spruce versus Adirondack and so forth. My responses in the instrument world center around this wood is good for this tone (this color) and this wood is good for that tone (that color) and between different builders there is certainly some variance as well. I suppose with preamps as it is with nicer acoustic guitars, if you pay a certain price you are almost guaranteed a well-built, decent sounding piece--maybe not the "particular sound" you were wanting, but nevertheless a high-quality example of THAT particular sound... It's just up to my set of ears to decide, specifically, what "particular" sound I'm looking for before I buy my preamps. Does this sound reasonable?

24th February 2006, 04:37 PM	#29
Marlowe Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 542	Chandler Channel/TG-2 Helios Type 69