Old 23rd April 2011
  #1
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Sony ecm 909

Any experiences with this one? I was planning on using it with zoom h4 to record some effects.
Thanks
Old 24th April 2011
  #2
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Unless there is some compelling reason to have a separate microphone (for unusual positioning, etc.) I wouldn't think that the mic capsules in the Sony product are of significantly higher quality than those built in to the Zoom recorder. And they both suffer from the limitation of having the mic capsules fixed into a very small geometry (i.e. quite close together). It would be interesting if you could do some tests of the built-in vs external mics and compare the performance. Maybe my prejudice is unfounded?
Old 24th April 2011
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrowley View Post
And they both suffer from the limitation of having the mic capsules fixed into a very small geometry (i.e. quite close together).
XY mics suffer from having the capsules in a very small geometry?! Isn´t that the whole point of coincident stereo?

Isn´t that like saying "AB stereo suffers from having the mics in a very large geometry"?
Old 24th April 2011
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

Quote:
XY mics suffer from having the capsules in a very small geometry?! Isn´t that the whole point of coincident stereo?
Coincident stereo is not necessarily ALWAYS the desirable configuration for "blags" stated purpose to "record some effects". Both of his options limit you to coincident micing. Having the option of a couple of separate mics vs. the coincident-pair in the Zoom would seem to be much more desirable than the "choice" between Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

Quote:
Isn´t that like saying "AB stereo suffers from having the mics in a very large geometry"?
Not at all. Separate microphones can always be positioned into a coincident pair. But a one-piece coincident mic does NOT offer you the option of separating the sides.
Old 24th April 2011
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boojum's Avatar
Poking around a bit seems to indicate that not only is it XY, it is also MS type XY. That means it cannot be separated. Sony ECM-909A, Stereo Microphone

OP was vague enough that the answer to his question is "yes." It will record effects. A specific idea of what effects would help. For the little Zoom this mic might be a good idea.
Old 24th April 2011
  #6
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I had one of these once, many years ago with a little MD recorder. Not a lot of top and not a lot of bottom, as far as I recall: quite robust, though.

If you just want it for convenience and low-cost, then I guess it'll do the job, but it's not high-end. I think I paid about $70 in the Sony shop in Tokyo.
Old 25th April 2011
  #7
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I likewise had the earlier version of this (ECM907) used with a portable MiniDisc. (It would also be useful with current portables such as the H2 or MicroTrack.) It is probably not your average taper's mic as it is a bit light on the bottom end, and the noise level is a bit high but it is good for stereo interview and actuality uses where something compact is required, remote from the recorder. The other thing to note is, as I was often using the result on mono AM radio, the mono compatibility was very good.

Its use declined when I bought a pro MD portable (HHB PortaDisc) and bought an AT825 to go with it. Sold the 907 to a fellow radio colleague and is still in use today.

The ECM909 looks like a new embodiment of the same design - maybe the noise has improved slightly. For better frequency response and lower noise but a larger size and higher cost, maybe consider the AT2022 or AT8022 options. But it's a horses-for-courses decision.
Old 25th April 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrowley View Post
Coincident stereo is not necessarily ALWAYS the desirable configuration for "blags" stated purpose to "record some effects". Both of his options limit you to coincident micing. Having the option of a couple of separate mics vs. the coincident-pair in the Zoom would seem to be much more desirable than the "choice" between Tweedledum and Tweedledee.



Not at all. Separate microphones can always be positioned into a coincident pair. But a one-piece coincident mic does NOT offer you the option of separating the sides.
What I'm saying is that the H4 has an xy-mic. n XY-mic does not suffer from being what it is. There is no spaced XY. The point about XY is that the mics introduce no delta-t. But yes, if you define XY as AB with both capsules fixed in the same place it would be a very bad AB setup ;-)
Old 25th April 2011
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@apple-q I am sorry that you missed the point. The discussion IS NOT about the benefits of a coincident stereo microphone. I have several myself that I use frequently.

blags is asking whether he should acquire a SECOND coincident microphone and I observed that there is NO apparent advantage in doing that. Whatever benefits there may be from a coincident pair, however configured, he didn't offer any compelling reason to get ANOTHER one.

But a pair of "conventional" microphones can always be arrayed into whatever configuration you want, including any sort of coincident pair.
Old 25th April 2011
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrowley View Post
@apple-q I am sorry that you missed the point. blags is asking whether he should acquire a SECOND coincident microphone and I observed that there is almost NO apparent advantage in doing that. Whatever benefits there may be from a coincident pair, however configured, acquiring ANOTHER coincident pair offers very little advantage. Certainly not enough benefit to justify the cost, at least IMHO.
Not if it´s an ECM909 of course not.
Acquiring a BETTER xy mic than the on-board one however WILL have a big impact on the results.
Ripping crappy capsules further apart will still sound crappy. So in that sense the main issue is not the fact that the capsules are close together.
Old 25th April 2011
  #11
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Richard Crowley's Avatar
 

However, even a pair of "crappy capsules" is more flexible as separate microphones than as a coincident microphone. We seem to be in "violent agreement" that acquiring a second low-end coincident pair appears to bring nothing beneficial to the table. And that was my original point, however badly I stated it. Thanks for clarifying the discussion.
Old 26th April 2011
  #12
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Thank you guys for your answers.
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