In defense of live on air mix engineers!

cppi · 22nd February 2006

I wrote this in reply to another thread and thought it should be here.
In rock and roll touring audio is "GOD" and video and lighting are the "red headed step child", but in brodcast and large corporate events audio is and will always be the "red headed step child". These producers are "audio ingnorant" by chioce or by accident.
I've been in full time audio biz since 1978, and for the last 10 years I've owned (and still do) a remote truck as well as doing large corporate events (to pay the bills!) and these producers treat audio as a step child (have I mention that before). They are more concearned about the "visual aspect" sooooo much more than audio........it's become such a joke. "More smoke!, more pyro!, more confettie cannons!", The blacks are crushed!, There needs to be more chroma!", "Can we make the Bally-Hoo more celabrated!?......"Hey how does the audio sound?" "It's ok.......maby you can tighten up the delay in the video a couple of frames.
I just did a large show in Chicago at the "United Center" for Toyota. Robin Williams was the host, Firehouse opened the show, Mos Def and Common rapped with DeKah Orch. a 70 piece band mic'd live with 2 DJ's, and Rod Stewart and band was the close, oh yeah there were 7 car reveals and the CEO from both US and Japan were speaking
Now I say all of this not to toot my own horn but to say that the producers of these large events treat every act as an "eliment" to the show......no more than a "curtin que". We are given one short 10 min. tech rehearsal "to see how the Band wagons are assembled and are pushed on the stage for timming and the look only!
Sound check....Ha! you are lucky to get a line check! and what sound check you get are given to the bands monitor check, so you have to get things in the "ball park" fastttt! and hope you can get a sinse of things when you get to dress rehearsal and hope it's not just a "Que to Que".
Now I say all of this for this reason....You can hire all the best mix enginers in the world and it's not going to help if they (WE) arent given the same amount of time to do our jobs as the Lighting and Vidiots are given! The producers will tech out automation moves, lighting scenes, and video ques all day long.....and need be they will hold 60 union stagehands in "short turn around" into "secret golden triple time" the following day, "Just to get the look right"!!!!!.........Just try to ask for a little extra time "to a mix"!!!!!! Ha! "your just audio!" "GET OUT OF MY WAY and MOVE THAT CABLE BEFORE THE LIGHTING DIR. OR THE VIDEO DIR. WALKS IN!!!!!!!
So in defense of all of those bad on air mixes, stop and think of the things that prevent that engineer from getting that great mix........IT'S TIME!......It's real easy to "arm chair quater back" some one elses mix, "Cain't he hear this!, Why doesn't he do that! .....Stop being so critical! Until you been in that kind of hot seat, just walk mile in there shoes. Believe me they know the mix is sucking........and there pissed to!!!!!!
Craig Penrod
Craig Penrod Productions Inc.
Fort Worth, Texas

**Remoteness** · 22nd February 2006

I hear you loud and clear my man!

I've also been in the hot seat and I’ve walked many miles in a broadcast music mixer's shoes so, I believe I can be critical about what I’ve heard.

I know, “Hold for lighting… Wait for audio.” The same ol’ same ol’ story time in and time out. We are stepped on, pushed aside, given (almost) impossible tasks to accomplish in an unusually short period of time when other departments seem to have all the time in the world to get their business done.

Audio folks typically get screwed on a daily basis and we all know we’re the "audio stepchildren" going into these production ventures -- That should not be the excuse when we provide a crappy music mix. What do we say when we do a great job -- Do we blame video?

tenderboy · 16th January 2009

been there, done that!

since a year i work for a conference center, where we also have a lot of gala/dinner/concerts and the like...

i am always happy when we get at least 15 minutes for soundcheck...

20 piece orchestra without a soundcheck is normal...

MichaelPatrick · 16th January 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by cppi

I wrote this in reply... Craig Penrod

Great writeup Craig. Enjoyable to read, and funny because its true!

22nd February 2006	#1
cppi Gear Head Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 47 Thread Starter	In defense of live on air mix engineers! I wrote this in reply to another thread and thought it should be here. In rock and roll touring audio is "GOD" and video and lighting are the "red headed step child", but in brodcast and large corporate events audio is and will always be the "red headed step child". These producers are "audio ingnorant" by chioce or by accident. I've been in full time audio biz since 1978, and for the last 10 years I've owned (and still do) a remote truck as well as doing large corporate events (to pay the bills!) and these producers treat audio as a step child (have I mention that before). They are more concearned about the "visual aspect" sooooo much more than audio........it's become such a joke. "More smoke!, more pyro!, more confettie cannons!", The blacks are crushed!, There needs to be more chroma!", "Can we make the Bally-Hoo more celabrated!?......"Hey how does the audio sound?" "It's ok.......maby you can tighten up the delay in the video a couple of frames. I just did a large show in Chicago at the "United Center" for Toyota. Robin Williams was the host, Firehouse opened the show, Mos Def and Common rapped with DeKah Orch. a 70 piece band mic'd live with 2 DJ's, and Rod Stewart and band was the close, oh yeah there were 7 car reveals and the CEO from both US and Japan were speaking Now I say all of this not to toot my own horn but to say that the producers of these large events treat every act as an "eliment" to the show......no more than a "curtin que". We are given one short 10 min. tech rehearsal "to see how the Band wagons are assembled and are pushed on the stage for timming and the look only! Sound check....Ha! you are lucky to get a line check! and what sound check you get are given to the bands monitor check, so you have to get things in the "ball park" fastttt! and hope you can get a sinse of things when you get to dress rehearsal and hope it's not just a "Que to Que". Now I say all of this for this reason....You can hire all the best mix enginers in the world and it's not going to help if they (WE) arent given the same amount of time to do our jobs as the Lighting and Vidiots are given! The producers will tech out automation moves, lighting scenes, and video ques all day long.....and need be they will hold 60 union stagehands in "short turn around" into "secret golden triple time" the following day, "Just to get the look right"!!!!!.........Just try to ask for a little extra time "to a mix"!!!!!! Ha! "your just audio!" "GET OUT OF MY WAY and MOVE THAT CABLE BEFORE THE LIGHTING DIR. OR THE VIDEO DIR. WALKS IN!!!!!!! So in defense of all of those bad on air mixes, stop and think of the things that prevent that engineer from getting that great mix........IT'S TIME!......It's real easy to "arm chair quater back" some one elses mix, "Cain't he hear this!, Why doesn't he do that! .....Stop being so critical! Until you been in that kind of hot seat, just walk mile in there shoes. Believe me they know the mix is sucking........and there pissed to!!!!!! Craig Penrod Craig Penrod Productions Inc. Fort Worth, Texas

22nd February 2006	#2
Remoteness Super Moderator Joined: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,405	I hear you loud and clear my man! I've also been in the hot seat and I’ve walked many miles in a broadcast music mixer's shoes so, I believe I can be critical about what I’ve heard. I know, “Hold for lighting… Wait for audio.” The same ol’ same ol’ story time in and time out. We are stepped on, pushed aside, given (almost) impossible tasks to accomplish in an unusually short period of time when other departments seem to have all the time in the world to get their business done. Audio folks typically get screwed on a daily basis and we all know we’re the "audio stepchildren" going into these production ventures -- That should not be the excuse when we provide a crappy music mix. What do we say when we do a great job -- Do we blame video? __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network What about my Facebook Profile? Remoteness on Myspace

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Need help from SSL mix engineers	Bernd G	High end	19	2nd March 2007 12:44 PM
looking for mix engineers in nor cal or l.a.	quincyg	Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production	2	27th August 2006 05:27 PM
Quesion Engineers?? Tracking Live Drums & Guitars?	Checkmate Muzik	Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production	5	18th February 2006 11:27 AM

16th January 2009	#3
tenderboy Gear nut Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 137	been there, done that! since a year i work for a conference center, where we also have a lot of gala/dinner/concerts and the like... i am always happy when we get at least 15 minutes for soundcheck... 20 piece orchestra without a soundcheck is normal...