Millenia or DAV BG1 as clean stereo preamp ?

musicsound-2 · 22nd February 2006, 01:12 AM

I am covered with the coloured side of tracking.

Now I would like to add a stereo preamp which shall sound hifi, natural and 3D but not at all cold and sterile (which might be a risk with a clean recording chain).
Mainly to do some recording of small jazzbands, vocal groups, accoustic instruments or sound samples (nature, etc..).

I intend to use Brauner mics but also a Crown Sass which I can buy used until the end of the week (anybody can recommend the Crown here ?) for a good price.

Did anyone compared both preamps ?
Of course it would be nice to stick to the cheaper BG1. I saw some very positive reviews already but I can´t remember that the BG1 was even preferred over the Millenia in absolute terms and independent from the better price.

I was also thinking once to buy one of the last AMEK DMCL for the clean side.

musicsound-2 · 23rd February 2006, 01:21 AM

nobody "clean" ?

owl · 23rd February 2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicsound-2

I am covered with the coloured side of tracking.

Now I would like to add a stereo preamp which shall sound hifi, natural and 3D but not at all cold and sterile (which might be a risk with a clean recording chain).
Mainly to do some recording of small jazzbands, vocal groups, accoustic instruments or sound samples (nature, etc..).

I intend to use Brauner mics but also a Crown Sass which I can buy used until the end of the week (anybody can recommend the Crown here ?) for a good price.

Did anyone compared both preamps ?
Of course it would be nice to stick to the cheaper BG1. I saw some very positive reviews already but I can´t remember that the BG1 was even preferred over the Millenia in absolute terms and independent from the better price.

I was also thinking once to buy one of the last AMEK DMCL for the clean side.

I've had nothing but great results with my DAV bg1. It's got very little cosmetic appeal but it sounds incredible on anything acoustic if you want it to sound 'real'. The switched gain is very useful and the lack of metering is made up by the amount of headroom you get to play with. Having not used a millenia pre i can't compare but if you go to DAVs website mick hintons phone number is on there and he'll probably do you a better deal than anyone else. His supplier for the boxes he puts the pres in has just gone bust so they may be difficult to get hold of but he's worth a go. The reason they're such good value is it's basically him making them by hand without any real overheads. Dave Gilmour from pink floyd has just got him to build all the preamps for the next pink floyd tour and he was put onto them by Mark Knopfler who is also a DAV user...

squeegybug · 23rd February 2006, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicsound-2

Now I would like to add a stereo preamp which shall sound hifi, natural and 3D but not at all cold and sterile

Budget? If you want absolute 3D realism -- Gordon Instruments Model 5 is 2-ch, $2900. Model 4 is 1-ch, $1800. Incredible equipment. Certainly not "sterile"... more like huge.

Steve

musicsound-2 · 23rd February 2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Budget? If you want absolute 3D realism -- Gordon Instruments Model 5 is 2-ch, $2900. Model 4 is 1-ch, $1800. Incredible equipment. Certainly not "sterile"... more like huge.

Steve

thanks I will look into this. You think, the Gordon is even better than the Millenia ?

Indeed I noticed that the BG1 cannot be delivered for the time being because of the "box issue" - what a pity.

nativeaudio · 23rd February 2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicsound-2

I am covered with the coloured side of tracking.

After having compared some preamps (Millenia, Grace, GreatRiver, Dacs, various Focusrites and others), I've decided to get a Millenia, for it's color.

It ain't a tube preamp, but definitely not as clean as for example the DACS or the Grace.

squeegybug · 23rd February 2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicsound-2

thanks I will look into this. You think, the Gordon is even better than the Millenia ?

Well, "better" is always subjective. I like Millennia Media products, well designed and great quality. For the "more of everything" preamp though I preferred the Gordon, and that's all I use now. There's some discussion around if you search, as here:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=38417

Steve

Plush · 23rd February 2006, 08:06 PM

May I suggest that, from personal experience, the DAV Electronics BG range is superior to Millenia mic amps?

That's right!

Don't pay a lot for the best mic amp in the world.
Purchase DAV Electronics BG range mic amp today!

Millenia=sterile and laboratory clean
DAV=detail, 3D, extreme resolution of timbre without ever any harshness

tomwehrle · 23rd February 2006, 08:35 PM

Why is it that Mick sent me an invoice for one @ $700, I just paid this morning at 2:44am my time, and have not heard a word from him. Ya think if they were having problems he'd at least let me know, i haven't gotten anything except the receipt from paypal saying my money went through,

T.RayBullard · 23rd February 2006, 10:29 PM

DAV BG-1. it doesnt have bling factor or make your internet dick bigger, but I own a millennia HV-3C and a DAV BG-1, and have tried/owned many others(grace, apogee, hardy)..and the DAV bg-1 is outstanding. Decca/Mark Knopfler/David Gilmour/Grammy.....

and 700 bucks as opposed to 2grand??no brainer, IMHO.

Call Mick..hes a busy man. you just paid this morning/?youll hear from him. he is a professional, hence the products popularity. Give it time..It is worth the wait. there are no worries with Mick.

tomwehrle · 23rd February 2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRay

Call Mick..hes a busy man. you just paid this morning/?youll hear from him. he is a professional, hence the products popularity. Give it time..It is worth the wait. there are no worries with Mick.

Yeah, I've never read anything about him being shady, so i'm not that worried, I'd just like to know if something is going on or not, and not hearing anything is odd, but he's replied to me in the past, so I'm sure he'll let me know in the next few days (hopefully) what's up. I wish I had the money to buy a pacifica too, those things are getting such good reviews...although i bet its pretty similiar to the portico 5012 i just got...i hate this site, its made me want all these toys and have no money

piano · 24th February 2006, 09:45 AM

I have the Millennia Pre's --- they give that 'classical sheen' on so many classical recordings. Very nice.

I did a shoot out with True Systems Precision 8 --- a very nice clean pre. The true system 8 is a great system for the money. The Millennia has detented knobs - for easier signal ballance between 2 mics. The Mellennia also was also quieter when pushed to very high gain - better for Royer 121's. However this is really pushing the True 8. The 8 is a fantatic neutral mic pre. The Millennia had a bit more bullocks - hence the 'classical sheen'. The average Joe on the street would never hear the difference between the two - but most gearslutz would I believe.

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piano

I have the Mellenia Pre's --- they give that 'classical sheen' on so many classical recordings. Very nice.

I did a shoot out with True Systems Precision 8 --- a very nice clean pre. The true system 8 is a great system for the money. The Mellenia has detented knobs - for easier signal ballance between 2 mics. The Mellenia also was also quieter when pushed to very high gain - better for Royer 121's. However this is really pushing the True 8. The 8 is a fantatic neutral mic pre. The Mellenia had a bit more bullocks - hence the 'classical sheen'. The average Joe on the street would never hear the difference between the two - but most gearslutz would I believe.

I think it is "Millenia"

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plush

May I suggest that, from personal experience, the DAV Electronics BG range is superior to Millenia mic amps?

That's right!

Don't pay a lot for the best mic amp in the world.
Purchase DAV Electronics BG range mic amp today!

Millenia=sterile and laboratory clean
DAV=detail, 3D, extreme resolution of timbre without ever any harshness

It´s quite a dramatic statement ... To illustrate it with few simple AB samples would be quite useful ...

matt f · 24th February 2006, 01:50 PM

I own the DAV BG1 and used to own the Millenia HV3. Both are quality mic-pres and have similar character, with only a slight (as mentioned) sheen being the added benefit of the Millenia.

I'd say the BG1 was closer to being neutral. Awesome for acoustic guitars. With the price difference it makes it a no-brainer for me.

Matt F

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt f

I own the DAV BG1 and used to own the Millenia HV3. Both are quality mic-pres and have similar character, with only a slight (as mentioned) sheen being the added benefit of the Millenia.

I'd say the BG1 was closer to being neutral. Awesome for acoustic guitars. With the price difference it makes it a no-brainer for me.

Matt F

There is always the famous magical mantra "for the price"... I have never used DAV preamp, but for me it is hard to believe that a preamp belonging to the "transparent" category could sound that much better (as described above) than another standard preamp costing three times more ... Few blind AB samples could tell us more...

I tried for example Behringer B5 SD mic. It sounded quite OK. Comparing to Schoeps or DPA it lacked something (a little bit, to say the truth), but FOR THE PRICE

it sounded great !

If DAV really sounds that much better, then there is no need to keep the costly Millennia ... And I would be the first to change them ...

matt f · 24th February 2006, 05:12 PM

Ivo, if you actually read my post.... You would have picked up that I think that both of these mic pres are on par (regardless of price) with only slight slight sonic differences, that come down to a matter of application and taste.

I added a personal opinion that given the price of the BG1 it made my choice a no brainer. PERSONAL OPINION D.H.

It's opinions like mine and others on this thread that make for constructive debate. It's negative comment bashing that wastes space and time.

Matt F

Plush · 24th February 2006, 05:55 PM

Hello Ivo,

I know that you are a knowledgeable recording person and I have enjoyed following your posts on , for example, Schoeps.

However, we don't have any time to post A/B comparisons in this forum.
We are busy making the recordings and editing the recordings.

We have used DAV Electronics mic amps for over 5 years. We are a professional classical recording business for 25 years doing top work with the best orchestras and players out there.

IN the current declining pro audio business, manufacturers seek to set themselves apart from one another and gain market advantage and sales by any means necessary. Millenia is a very good product and used to be heavily advertised. They have an impressive client list and the designer and people at Millenia are good guys. They make a great mic amp.

DAV Electronics makes a better one, but they don't do any advertising. Some believe that because they have not heard of DAV that it must be a "me too" product or a product of lesser distinction. The only people who think this way are those who have not heard it.

My statement above does not carry the qualiification, "for the price."

The DAV mic amps are astounding in sound and design.

They sound as good as an EAR 624 which sells for 10 times the amount of the DAV. They have the tube sweetness of EAR in a solid state design.

Good=Good=Good

The test is when you walk back from the hall to the control room and hear the DAV products/mic combination rendering the sound just the same as you heard in the hall. In fact, there is some magic in the DAV sound that makes the capture EVEN BETTER than what you heard in the hall.

I KNOW I'm not wrong about this--I've been doing it for too long to not trust my judgement and ears.

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 06:11 PM

Hello Plush,

thank you very much for your elaborate reply ... Well, it seems there is no other way than to get this preamp :-)))
Where to order it ? Is it a stereo unit ? I have not found the manufacturer´s website ... just some discussion links and one distributor. He mentions the cost 416 pounds ... this is really not expensive comparing to Millennia ...

How would you compare the inner noise, gain and headroom DAV vs. Millennia ?

Plush · 24th February 2006, 06:20 PM

Hello Ivo,

You can deal directly with the deisigner/manufacturer, Mr. Mick Hinton at
http://www.davelectronics.com

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plush

Hello Ivo,

You can deal directly with the deisigner/manufacturer, Mr. Mick Hinton at
http://www.davelectronics.com

Hello Plush,

thank you. So it is UK. How nice (transport cost and customs nuisance is horrible here when something comes from outside EU).

I can see he also makes EQ and limiter/compressor. Anyone tried ? The same miraculous (including price) as the preamp ?

Ruairi · 24th February 2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I think it is "Millenia"

Actually it's "Millennia"

T.RayBullard · 24th February 2006, 11:16 PM

Ivo, I can help you with the DAV preamp too...check your email..

teddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Hello Plush,

thank you. So it is UK. How nice (transport cost and customs nuisance is horrible here when something comes from outside EU).

I can see he also makes EQ and limiter/compressor. Anyone tried ? The same miraculous (including price) as the preamp ?

T.RayBullard · 24th February 2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Hello Plush,

thank you. So it is UK. How nice (transport cost and customs nuisance is horrible here when something comes from outside EU).

I can see he also makes EQ and limiter/compressor. Anyone tried ? The same miraculous (including price) as the preamp ?

there is a guy on 3d who has used it, I have only used the preamps(I own two of the 2 channel versions) I will PM you there.

Teddy

ISedlacek · 24th February 2006, 11:35 PM

Thanks, Teddy, we are already in touch ...

As for BG3-6 (EQ, compressor, channel strip), it is hard to find any reference around ... Has anyone used them at all ? If the preamp is so much special and favoured, what about the other units ?

tomwehrle · 25th February 2006, 01:24 AM

almost 48 hours since I sent Mick the money and still no replies to emails

piano · 25th February 2006, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I think it is "Millenia"

Fixed it!

T.RayBullard · 25th February 2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemeekfreak

almost 48 hours since I sent Mick the money and still no replies to emails

Mick is on vacation, but I called his house for you and gave him your email.

just to be safe, if you dont mind , send him another email with your name in the header. I told his associate to tell him to make sure to check his email..

no worries, hes just a busy one man operation.

Teddy

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DAV BG1	cally	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	4	10th March 2004 01:54 PM

22nd February 2006, 01:12 AM	#1
musicsound-2 Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 331	Millenia or DAV BG1 as clean stereo preamp ? I am covered with the coloured side of tracking. Now I would like to add a stereo preamp which shall sound hifi, natural and 3D but not at all cold and sterile (which might be a risk with a clean recording chain). Mainly to do some recording of small jazzbands, vocal groups, accoustic instruments or sound samples (nature, etc..). I intend to use Brauner mics but also a Crown Sass which I can buy used until the end of the week (anybody can recommend the Crown here ?) for a good price. Did anyone compared both preamps ? Of course it would be nice to stick to the cheaper BG1. I saw some very positive reviews already but I can´t remember that the BG1 was even preferred over the Millenia in absolute terms and independent from the better price. I was also thinking once to buy one of the last AMEK DMCL for the clean side.

23rd February 2006, 08:35 PM	#9
tomwehrle Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 398	Why is it that Mick sent me an invoice for one @ $700, I just paid this morning at 2:44am my time, and have not heard a word from him. Ya think if they were having problems he'd at least let me know, i haven't gotten anything except the receipt from paypal saying my money went through, __________________ Tom Wehrle www.tomwehrle.com www.myspace.com/tomwehrle

24th February 2006, 06:11 PM	#19
ISedlacek Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Czech mountains and forests Posts: 2,873	Hello Plush, thank you very much for your elaborate reply ... Well, it seems there is no other way than to get this preamp :-))) Where to order it ? Is it a stereo unit ? I have not found the manufacturer´s website ... just some discussion links and one distributor. He mentions the cost 416 pounds ... this is really not expensive comparing to Millennia ... How would you compare the inner noise, gain and headroom DAV vs. Millennia ? __________________ Ivo Velvet Mastering Savita Music

24th February 2006, 11:35 PM	#25
ISedlacek Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Czech mountains and forests Posts: 2,873	Thanks, Teddy, we are already in touch ... As for BG3-6 (EQ, compressor, channel strip), it is hard to find any reference around ... Has anyone used them at all ? If the preamp is so much special and favoured, what about the other units ? __________________ Ivo Velvet Mastering Savita Music

23rd February 2006, 01:21 AM	#2
musicsound-2 Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 331	nobody "clean" ?

23rd February 2006, 08:06 PM	#8
Plush Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,908	May I suggest that, from personal experience, the DAV Electronics BG range is superior to Millenia mic amps? That's right! Don't pay a lot for the best mic amp in the world. Purchase DAV Electronics BG range mic amp today! Millenia=sterile and laboratory clean DAV=detail, 3D, extreme resolution of timbre without ever any harshness

23rd February 2006, 10:29 PM	#10
T.RayBullard Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Columbus County, North Carolina Posts: 2,431	DAV BG-1. it doesnt have bling factor or make your internet dick bigger, but I own a millennia HV-3C and a DAV BG-1, and have tried/owned many others(grace, apogee, hardy)..and the DAV bg-1 is outstanding. Decca/Mark Knopfler/David Gilmour/Grammy..... and 700 bucks as opposed to 2grand??no brainer, IMHO. Call Mick..hes a busy man. you just paid this morning/?youll hear from him. he is a professional, hence the products popularity. Give it time..It is worth the wait. there are no worries with Mick.

24th February 2006, 09:45 AM	#12
piano Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 499	I have the Millennia Pre's --- they give that 'classical sheen' on so many classical recordings. Very nice. I did a shoot out with True Systems Precision 8 --- a very nice clean pre. The true system 8 is a great system for the money. The Millennia has detented knobs - for easier signal ballance between 2 mics. The Mellennia also was also quieter when pushed to very high gain - better for Royer 121's. However this is really pushing the True 8. The 8 is a fantatic neutral mic pre. The Millennia had a bit more bullocks - hence the 'classical sheen'. The average Joe on the street would never hear the difference between the two - but most gearslutz would I believe.

24th February 2006, 01:50 PM	#15
matt f Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 116	I own the DAV BG1 and used to own the Millenia HV3. Both are quality mic-pres and have similar character, with only a slight (as mentioned) sheen being the added benefit of the Millenia. I'd say the BG1 was closer to being neutral. Awesome for acoustic guitars. With the price difference it makes it a no-brainer for me. Matt F

24th February 2006, 05:12 PM	#17
matt f Gear nut Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 116	Ivo, if you actually read my post.... You would have picked up that I think that both of these mic pres are on par (regardless of price) with only slight slight sonic differences, that come down to a matter of application and taste. I added a personal opinion that given the price of the BG1 it made my choice a no brainer. PERSONAL OPINION D.H. It's opinions like mine and others on this thread that make for constructive debate. It's negative comment bashing that wastes space and time. Matt F

24th February 2006, 05:55 PM	#18
Plush Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,908	Hello Ivo, I know that you are a knowledgeable recording person and I have enjoyed following your posts on , for example, Schoeps. However, we don't have any time to post A/B comparisons in this forum. We are busy making the recordings and editing the recordings. We have used DAV Electronics mic amps for over 5 years. We are a professional classical recording business for 25 years doing top work with the best orchestras and players out there. IN the current declining pro audio business, manufacturers seek to set themselves apart from one another and gain market advantage and sales by any means necessary. Millenia is a very good product and used to be heavily advertised. They have an impressive client list and the designer and people at Millenia are good guys. They make a great mic amp. DAV Electronics makes a better one, but they don't do any advertising. Some believe that because they have not heard of DAV that it must be a "me too" product or a product of lesser distinction. The only people who think this way are those who have not heard it. My statement above does not carry the qualiification, "for the price." The DAV mic amps are astounding in sound and design. They sound as good as an EAR 624 which sells for 10 times the amount of the DAV. They have the tube sweetness of EAR in a solid state design. Good=Good=Good The test is when you walk back from the hall to the control room and hear the DAV products/mic combination rendering the sound just the same as you heard in the hall. In fact, there is some magic in the DAV sound that makes the capture EVEN BETTER than what you heard in the hall. I KNOW I'm not wrong about this--I've been doing it for too long to not trust my judgement and ears.

24th February 2006, 06:20 PM	#20
Plush Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,908	Hello Ivo, You can deal directly with the deisigner/manufacturer, Mr. Mick Hinton at http://www.davelectronics.com

25th February 2006, 01:24 AM	#26
tomwehrle Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 398	almost 48 hours since I sent Mick the money and still no replies to emails __________________ Tom Wehrle www.tomwehrle.com www.myspace.com/tomwehrle