Millenia or DAV BG1 as clean stereo preamp ?

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Trebor Flow

I auditioned the BG1 and Millennia Origin with my Bottle mic for a weekend and in the end went for the Origin.

I thought that the BG1 was good but a bit well .... lacked magic for me. I just found the Millennia pre's to draw so much more out of the Bottle and then when you add in the EQ and compression the BG1 is sounding sooo flat and boring!

Yeah I Know that the BG1 is just a pre but the pre's on the Origin had more magic and there's a choice of SS or valve.

I thought the BG1 was great value for money but "world class" is pushing it a bit for me.


Trebor

Well, the BG doesnt color the sound at all, so have you considered that what is boring may be the mic? if you have to EQ and Comp the hell out of something it probably isnt such a great source to begin with..."draw out of the mic" huh?

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Please, don´t forget to bless us with a detailed report ... This device is relatively unknown ...

I second this request. thumbsup

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Trebor Flow

I thought that the BG1 was good but a bit well .... lacked magic for me. I just found the Millennia pre's to draw so much more out of the Bottle and then when you add in the EQ and compression the BG1 is sounding sooo flat and boring!

Well, you are comparing apples with onions. A preamp vs. another preamp PLUS EQ PLUS comp ... YOu should have tried standalone HV3 (with direct output) and BG. Than your comparison would have a sense ..

[tomwehrle]

my bg1 gets here tomorrow...

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by joemeekfreak

my bg1 gets here tomorrow...

my 3rd should be here in a couple weeks.

[salomonander]

anyone tried this pre with km84's?

[Trebor Flow]

Steady on chaps

First, it is standard practice to add EQ and compression as you record - it completely changes the way you perform and interact with the mic. Secondly EQ and compression of the standard in the Origin is not possible with plugins and it is always better to get the sound right at source. Are you saying you don't use EQ and compression on tracks recorded with the BG1 - surely not!

And YES sorry but just listening to the direct out of the Origin and the BG1 I found the BG1 to lack magic and be a bit flat SORRY but that's what I felt - if you found different comparing an Origin STT-1 and a BG1 so be it.

The BG1 reminded me of my Focusrite Green 2 in that it is typical of IC based clean EQ's.

As I said for the money it is a bargain - that is without doubt. IMHO the Origins SS pre is a more exciting involving sound and brought out of the Bottle B7 capsule a magic and sheer presence the BG1 could definately not equal.

As ever - as ever YMMV.

Trebor

[Trebor Flow]

Well, the BG doesnt color the sound at all, so have you considered that what is boring may be the mic? if you have to EQ and Comp the hell out of something it probably isnt such a great source to begin with..."draw out of the mic" huh?

Now Bigray - stop leading the jury. Who mentioned EQing and Comping the hell out of my bottle - that may be how you set up a voice channel - but not I.

and if .... "a pre drawing a sound out of a mic" is a "huh?" to you - then it's a "huh?" to you. Fair enough.

Trebor

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by Trebor Flow

Now Bigray - stop leading the jury. Who mentioned EQing and Comping the hell out of my bottle - that may be how you set up a voice channel - but not I.

and if .... "a pre drawing a sound out of a mic" is a "huh?" to you - then it's a "huh?" to you. Fair enough.

Trebor

Im just asking a basic question. And I dont do "voice channels" or EQ and Compression as I record. I do classical works. Symphony, Choral, etc, with very little of those two things you mentioned.. I dont think im leading any jury, just voting for a product that I believe in. Your comparison seemed flawed at first. Thanks for the clarification, but for being a smartass, fuuck . The BG1 reminded me of my Focusrite Green 2 in that it is typical of IC based clean EQ's.
are you talking about the EQ or the preamp?

[Trebor Flow]

Are yes my mishtake

IC based pre's.


Oh you do classical - yes EQ and compression probably isn't the order of the day on the way in.

But I stick with my judgment - I found the Millennia SS pre to preferable to my ear than the BG1 "with my voice and my Bottle mic with my gear in my studio"

It's just an opinion - it answers the title of the post (almost as the Origin is a mono channel) but there you have it - this writer prefered the Millennia SS pre to the BG1 pre.

Trebor

[tomwehrle]

So i did it, here are some clips I recorded. I used 2 KSM32's going into the following pre then into my 888/24 (no fancy ad/da converter). The mics are panned hard left and right, so if you want to seperate them, go for it, the mic on the left is the mic on the left as if you were playing the guitar, not as if you were watching someone play it.

They are not compressed, eq'd...anything, so adjust your speakers accordingly as some are different volumes.

The pre's:
Dav BG1
Portico 5012
Sytek MPX-4A (with burr browns)

As you'll see, there are 2 different clips for the Portico and Sytek, that's because I decided to do a version with silk, and then no silk, as well as the regular pre's on the Sytek and the burr browns. I'm not that great of a guitarist, so I tried to play the only "picking" thing i kinda know, then went into some open strumming and put in a few barred chords at the end as well.

I also had to make these mp3's @ 256kbs to get the file size under 5mb. Nothing super scientific, but it at least should let you hear the differences between these pres instead of reading what people think.

Enjoy.

[ISedlacek]

Thanks, Tom.
I listened to the samples few times. Cannot help - BG1 has the clearest and biggest sound of all these ... (to my ears) ...

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Thanks, Tom.
I listened to the samples few times. Cannot help - BG1 has the clearest and biggest sound of all these ... (to my ears) ...

I concur, The BG1 has the most euphonic sound out the pres compared here. Clear and big but not harsh.

It would be great to hear a comparison with the Millennia Media HV3

Peace
Marco

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by sunflute

It would be great to hear a comparison with the Millennia Media HV3

Peace
Marco

Marco, wait for 6 days ... I will post it

[Alexi]

is the bg1 sample louder than the others?

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Marco, wait for 6 days ... I will post it

Thanks Ivo

I look forward to it...

Peace
Marco

[Albert]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I listened to the samples few times. Cannot help - BG1 has the clearest and biggest sound of all these ... (to my ears) ...

Agreed. The BG-1 sounds noticably bigger and more euphonic than the others, although all the preamps sound nice in their own right. I particularly liked the Portico with silk, while not as big as the BG-1 it had a nice quality to the tone.

The sound of the BG-1 in these examples is what I've come to know using my own BG-1, so I would say it is an accurate example of what it can do. The "bigger than life" thing is definitely part of the signature. Also, I have to say it is killer on keyboards and samples.

Thanks for posting those examples!

[sunflute]

Are any of you BG1 users using the pre with ribbon mics like the Royers or the AEAs?

Is it enough output to drive ribbons?

What's the sound like?

Thanks in advance,

Peace
Marco

[zvenx]

I am a music producer living in jamaica and am by no strech of the imagination an audiophile (although when I hear it, I know what I like and what I don't like).

These have two main implications.
I dont' get to try out and a/b gear...and unless pre-amp or microphone is really bad or really good.. I can't hear it in isolation and say damn it is horrible or in reverse wow, this is a great sounding pre-amp/microphone, I can say whether or not I like the sound however.

last year based on comments here and other forums I decided to upgrade my preamp to the BG-1. I never ever heard it once before I bought it, yes I know most if not all would frown, but in jamaica I dont' ahve the luxury of a/bing or trying out.

I have been very pleased with it...but I can't say it blow me away...except a week or so ago, a friend came over to sing on a project for me and was blown away by my microphone (rode NT-1000), I had to tell him it wasn't the mic but the pre-amp.. he was very impressed..
with these tests I finally get to hear it a/b'ed and wow. it really really is that good...
I would love to hear it a/b' with the pacifica on vocals, as the pacifica has because of the reviews on this forum, whetted my appetite.

thanks
rsp

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by sunflute

Are any of you BG1 users using the pre with ribbon mics like the Royers or the AEAs?

Is it enough output to drive ribbons?

What's the sound like?

Thanks in advance,

Peace
Marco

I will ask Mick tommorow. Ive got to call him anyway.

Teddy

[salomonander]

And I want to raise the km84 question again.
I would buy this preamp specifically for them.
Anyone tried this combination?

cheers

[T.RayBullard]

Got this from Mick a second ago:
Hi Teddy
ribbons not normally a problem.

Mick

Originally Posted by sunflute

Are any of you BG1 users using the pre with ribbon mics like the Royers or the AEAs?

Is it enough output to drive ribbons?

What's the sound like?

Thanks in advance,

Peace
Marco

[Snatchman]

Hey...... that's a pretty good test ...! If I had to record an acoustic guitar track using these mic pres, I would choose them in the exact order you have them listed....! I have to check on this BG-1..! (YMMV)..........

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Alexi

is the bg1 sample louder than the others?

Yes, it is ... I just imported all of them into Samplitude and balanced the levels a bit and listened again few times. Even in even levels, BG1 had still the most euphonic sound to my ears. It gave the guitar something extra as if, or the other preamps gave less than it deserved (thinner).
Portico (non silk) tried to make the sound larger too, but rather in a slightly pushy, aggressive, tiny bit harsh way. BG1, was big, but very clear, mellow and relaxed ... What was also quite obvious, was a reasonably bigger stereo depth, or 3D than the other preamps ...
The question is what it really does to the sound ? Emphasises certain frequencies ? Works as a transformer ? But then it would be difficult to use it for a pure classical music (where some people reportedly favour it over other preamps). A small mystery. Some more samples would be nice ... Next week I will try to discover more a way more about it ...

[salomonander]

Just listened to the samples...(only BG1 and Portico though).
They sound way different. I agree that the 3d image of the BG1 is
bigger. To me it also sounds clearer in the low mids.
What I can't agree on is the "sweet" top end of the BG1.
To me it sounds a bit harsh, almost biting in my headphones.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Thanks Tom for the samples. As was mentioned, there is quite a difference in the levels... almost 12 dB here and there in some cases. Also, I think perhaps you've reversed the left and right channels for the BG1 clip, relative to the others?

Here are the same samples balanced a little in level, BG1 channels swapped, in random order.

Key is here

Steve

-------

It is quite difficult to balance the levels of various samples by normalising. If done, the opening parts will still remain at quite different levels, I balanced both parts separately ... and even that has to be done rather manually, since any occassional extra strike will alter the general volume level ...

[partnering]

the newer leveled sounds are bit different. the portico silk is nice and smooth top.
i'm hearing some mid range thing in the bg. sytek burbrown is nice low.
honestly i like them all . this is hearing on 50$ altec lansing three piece computer speakers :P the bg likes transients it seems. kinda cool to know for this application you can get to the apples and oranges level for the price of the bg compared to the others.

[mr.gefell]

Originally Posted by partnering

the newer leveled sounds are bit different. the portico silk is nice and smooth top.
i'm hearing some mid range thing in the bg. sytek burbrown is nice low.
honestly i like them all . this is hearing on 50$ altec lansing three piece computer speakers :P the bg likes transients it seems. kinda cool to know for this application you can get to the apples and oranges level for the price of the bg compared to the others.

i'm with you they all had their greatness, but the portico with the silk switch on was very "sexy" sounding.

[Doctor_Tone]

Hi salomonander !

My BG-1 arrives in a couple of days. I could make some recordings with my two KM184. I don't know if there are big differences between the KM84 and the KM184 but maybe it'll help you to make your decision anyway.


Regards

Stefan

[tomwehrle]

yeah, i told you all that the levels wouldnt be the same, i'm not really sure (since each mp3 is a different take) if you can really get that close without compression, anyways, glad people are listening to them at least.