-Nearly Impossible Situation-traveling to produce live cd/video

[MLK]

Thanks for this online community and the ability to glean knowledge from so many experienced users.

BACKGROUND INFO:
I'm completely green at recording, and have much put myself in an impossible situation. A group of us are traveling to Rwanda to record a 'fusion' album with some friends there who own an independent film studio. During our time there we plan to create and record these songs in both audio and visual to create a small EP. I'm not worried with the visual as they'll take care of that, but we've assumed the responsibility of the audio project and looking at this forum has really made me think that I'm in too deep without any help. I'm a musician with really no experience in recording. I've been urging my sound friends to come with us, but I don't think they'll be able to make it...We only plan to capture before sending the product to be mixed and mastered by a professional. Most of the sound will be unable to re dubbed. I'm basically starting from the ground up and I know there is a huge learning curve, but I'd be grateful for any help.

For the tracks we plan to have several instruments:
Glockenspiel, Traditional African Drums (Djembe and Rwandan Drums), Acoustic Guitars, Harmonica, Accordion, 2 Male and 2 Female Vocalists.

AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT:
AKG C414 (2x)
SM 58 (3x)

NEEDED EQUIPMENT:
-Interface-suggestions appreciated-8 track probably needed
-Pre-Amps
-I plan on purchasing Logic for my mac
-More Mics--any suggestions to pair with pre-amps/for the above instrumentation

ACOUSTIC ROOM TREATMENT
We will probably record in one of their houses in Rwanda which will be a cement building with 8ft high ceilings and cement floors and hopefully a finished roof. The room will also have to look aesthetically pleasing as we'll be shooting video. Will probably have to make some homemade sound traps...

BUDGET
While I'm flexible with the budget. I'd like to spend under 3,000.

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS
We'll be traveling with weight restrictions. Obviously recording in a room like this with this many instruments will be a nightmare with bleeding--Any suggestions.

--Any help is appreciated, and please let me know the areas I have yet to think through--

[jnorman]

yes, with no experience, i would say you are in over your head.

to counter that, you will need to KISS - keep it as simple as possible. the easiest way to capture an all acoustic group of any kind is to use a single ORTF pair of nice small diaphragm cardioid condensers - easy and quick to set up and hard to screw up too badly. your pair of 414s will do this job fine, but wouldnt be my first choice.

trying to do multiple mic setups is far harder to mix, and offers WAY more ways to screw everything up. but if you do want to close mic each instrument, do it IN ADDITION to your single main ORTF pair. for the spot mics, i would probably stick to a bunch of regular SM57s - they can do a fine job, and are about as road-worthy as anything ever made.

echo audiofire 4 would be a good interface choice for a 2-mic setup. if you decide to spot mic everything in addition to the main pair, consider a tascam US1800 (USB) or MOTU 8pre (FW).

garageband or boom recorder would suffice for this rather than logic, which is IMO less intuitive for a recording novice. reaper is a good choice if you want more control. logic would probably be my last choice for DAW, but thats just me.

or you could forego the whole interface DAW thing by using a dedicated field recorder like the tascam DR680.

stands, mic clips, booms, USB/FW cables and extras, mic cables and extra cables, gaffer tape, power considerations, etc etc. check and double check your equipment list - write down EVERYTHING! check it again.

make sure you do some test recordings with your setup before going. then do some more - the more practice you can squeeze in before the trip the less likely you will run into problems you didnt foresee.

good luck - the trip sounds like a total hoot, so have fun.

[philper]

I have to ask--are you also responsible for doco style audio recording too? Like verite scenes, interviews etc? Because so far you don't have anything that will work very well for that..... Music-wise keep it very simple--as soon as you find out what the weight and case # restrictions are you'll see why. Starting w/ a really good stereo pair (in any case) and a really reliable DC-powerable way to record them is a good beginning. If you can add more tracks (like for a soloist), great, but you can also accomplish kind of the same thing by how you arrange the players re the mic. Remember that a simple system that always works and can be deployed quickly will benefit you and the production far more than a complex one that requires time and fussing with....
Good luck--could be the gig of a lifetime!

phil p

[Audiop]

You have the Mac and 414's, good start.

Save your money and use reaper instead of logic.

Audiofire 4 (two 48V mic inputs, two line inputs and spdif in) can be powered from the FW bus of your Mac (unless new generation Macbook or Air) or from an external 12V SLA/car battery.

Several Audiofire 4 can also be daisy chained should you decide to use more than two channels.

As mentioned, a dedicated field recorder could be a better choice.


/Peter

[MLK]

Thanks for the help. I read a post previously on this topic: Recording and pre-mixing in the live room.
And agree that it's a great idea. We will however have guests in the 'studio' participating along with the music that we wouldn't necessarily want to be prominent in the sound and post production would probably want some options. So I think we'll get some sm57s and potentially use the 414s on lead vocals and look into getting a good pair of single ORTF pair of nice small diaphragm cardioid condensers. If we were to go that route which would you suggest?

Thankfully, I'm not in charge of the deco audio. Thanks for the heads up on the power supply. I had yet to think of that. In my experience there the power is often spotty and will occasionally cut out. I had thought about the possibility of generators, but in reality I don't think we could get the generator far enough away that it wouldn't bleed into the mix. I really appreciate the advice of using a car battery. What's your advice on getting two Audiofire 4's vs MOTU 8pre? I'm not familiar with field recorders-do they also run on battery power-I'm assuming so.

As far as acoustic treatment of the room I've found a site that talks about making some homemade stuff and will probably do that when we get there.

After a little more reflection, we do plan to send it to some professional for all post-production...so perhaps a better way to phrase/think about this situation is: What can I not screw up in recording? What can they fix in post-production that I wouldn't have to worry about (or not pay as close attention to) and what can I do that would irrevocably ruin the sound?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

[willi1203]

Originally Posted by MLK

BUDGET
While I'm flexible with the budget. I'd like to spend under 3,000.

--

With ou without plane tickets ?

[MLK]

Originally Posted by willi1203

With ou without plane tickets ?

Without Plane Ticket...3,000usd for equipment-If we can get away with under 1,000usd I'm completely fine with that.

[tnjazz]

Tascam DR-680 makes the most sense, since you already have a few 58's and a pair of 414's.

the Tascam has 6 preamps and a digital, so you could add one more mic and if you can procure a preamp with a digital output (maybe the new Sound Devices Mixpre D or the Sound Devices USBPre2) then you have 2 more channels to work with.

An computer and an interface would be more difficult and let's be honest - probably more dangerous because you don't know how reliable the power will be...! The Tascam will run for a couple hours on AA batteries. You can also power it externally with DVD batteries or with a battery sled, etc.

These two pieces of gear can be had for about $1500 total.

[JEGG]

I thought there should be an option to a computer, also, and the DR-680 would be good. It can handle a pair of digi ins from an computer interface, stereo recorder, stereo pre w/ digi outs, all of which may provide time code in and outs, depending on the specific gear.

I also think a stereo mic combo would be good, for documentary stuff and use in a room. I would suggest MKH30 and 40, going for very good prices in the US. Also, the two generations or more old stereo Sennheiser shotgun is going for a song (new). That would be less useful for studio kinds of things.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

An computer and an interface would be more difficult and let's be honest - probably more dangerous because you don't know how reliable the power will be...! The Tascam will run for a couple hours on AA batteries. You can also power it externally with DVD batteries or with a battery sled, etc.

Macbook has internal batteries and Audiofire 4 is powered from the FW port.. that's why I recommended that above.. ;-)


/Peter

[Gilli C]

Hi ya,

To keep your weight down, maybe you can source mic stands, cables, monitors etc over there.

And... carnet - will you need to do your own or will yours be included in the film companies?

G

[sailcat]

IMHO, get a Tascam 680 and take your laptop as well for backup. The 680 will be far easier and more dependable as your main capture device. Take extra sd cards. Rugged mics like the 57s are a good bet. Maybe add a couple of CAD 179's. Practice your stereo recording technique before you go so you feel confident that you can get a good stereo take at minimum. In fact, practice everything and learn your gear before you travel half way around the world. You don't want the tension and indecision to ruin what looks to be an awesome experience.

[hbphotoav]

You might also take along a pair of tiny omni condensers, like DPA 806x or the little Naiants (I own the DPAs, have never used the Naiants). They, plus anything 20-100cm long - carbon fiber rod, dowel, a mic boom placed horizontally or a small branch from a handy tree) can allow you to rig a quick, flat response AB setup. The DPAs are also killer interview mics, and will nearly disappear from the camera shot. I've had airport security make me disassemble my AKG CK98 shotgun mic (remove the gag and take the long element off the SB300 amp module) but they never look twice at the baggie with the two DPA 4061s and MicroDot XLRs.

Sounds like a fun gig.

HB

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Macbook has internal batteries and Audiofire 4 is powered from the FW port.. that's why I recommended that above.. ;-)


/Peter

Yes, but it will still need to be plugged in to charge at some point. With the portable deck you just need to find a place that sells alkaline batteries. That, in my mind, is a safer alternative in countries with a potentially less advanced power grid.

[Audiop]

Or a small inverter to bring +12V SLA up to 110V AC.


/Peter