Quick question for live sound...

[guittarzzan]

Ok, I have an entirely slutty new guitar rack rig and am setting up presets. Our band plays w/o a sound man so a decent mix is on our shoulders.
Question: for a classic rock/hard rock band, what do you think an appropriate amount of boost for guitar solos should be to get above the mix a bit without being too much?
...fyi, it's one guitar player band

My gut says about 3db, but I just wanted to bounce it off you guys to see if there's a rough 'norm' out there used by those in the know

thx,
Steve

[Remoteness]

Remember, 3 dB is twice as loud...

[Jim vanBergen]

3dB is a good bump for a guitar solo. if the vocal drops out entirely, you could possibly go to 6dB, but you then risk eclipsing the room for the vocal to exist as well. Given that you are working without a sound man, 3dB is the max you should start with. if you make a tone change to a brighter pickup, you may not even need that. Make sure you take slow steps! Cheers-

JvB

[Remoteness]

Well said!

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Remember, 3 dB is twice as loud...

Well, sorta. I've seen this one tossed around in quite a few discussions over the years. Not that I remember for sure , let's see, is three dB twice the voltage? or is 6dB twice the voltage. I'm at home and don't have a VOM in front of me. When you drop one leg of a balanced line you drop half of your voltage right? And that's 6 dB ? Anyway, it's usually the amp guys that really get into this (twice the power from your amp and you only get 3dB gain) and they argue watts, Db's, perceived volume.....there it is! the ever elusive perceived volume. Now theres a real non precise technical term.
Anyway. It is usually argued that a sound needs to be 6-9 dB louder to be perceived as twice as loud. 3 dB is just plain...yup, that's louder. Not, Ouch!, that's twice as loud!
Of course all this depends on so many factors that it's really more of a moot point anyway! As an aside...hey Steve, love the remote forum. Thanks for keepin' on with it. Cheers, Rick

[NickNeedsWork]

Get a sound guy. They're out there. The ones just starting will do it for free. Maybe even tour/roadie if you feed them.

[dplitt]

Hi Steve
Just want to add my 2 cents worth, I've been mixing live for about 17 years and while I dont know everything, well at least I'm at the point to where I know what MOST of those buttons and knobs kinda do While 3db sounds good as a starting reference a lot will depend on factors such as room acoustics, crowd noise and the bands stage volume. Usually to get a guitar to cut in the mix I will give the channel EQ a gentle 2 or 3db boost at around 1.5 Khz. Rasing the fader a little helps but dont blast it out front. I run a compressor across my output buss and slightly compress the entire mix at about 3:1 to keep all my levels in check.

If your running your own sound have a buddy keep an "ear" out front and have him/her give you updates. Usually if you play a room several time you will get a feel for how it sounds. Hope this helped

Dan Plitt
Sound Source
San Diego, Ca.

[Robert Dewar]

If you go with perceived volume, I'd say 9-10 dB is the doubling level increase, in SPLs, for most listeners. Maybe, try to place your amp up a bit higher, where it will cut better from stage, off the top, and then stand out of its' way, as much as possible. Then, a slight boost, like your 3 or 4 dB suggestion, will likely be lots. I also agree with the thought on the tonal shift, to a slightly brighter, or upper-mid-heavy tone, for your solos. Of course, getting a GOOD FOH operator is still the best bet, for my money.... nothin' like the real thing, turning up your solos, and keeping your group sounding awesome, all the time. Consistency is important, from a band's public presentation point of view - don't entrust it to a guess.