First try w/ "boojum/jnorman array" - 2 pairs, 1 bar - Page 3

Brackish · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don S

mixed together the image never sounded quite right to me.

Well, the reason I had originally asked if anyone had noticed a
phasing issue when blending between the two pair is because
I had heard a sample of a blending of mics in this array and
there seemed to be some sort of a conflict between the
mics which made things sound worse. [This sample I heard
was somewhere on this board but I'm not able to find that
particular sample anymore.] I had assumed that the conflict
may have been a phasing issue but it could have possibly
been some other conflict between the mics, I suppose.
I believe someone said that there could be a conflict in this
array due to different brands of mics not working well
with each other.

Don S · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brackish

Well, the reason I had originally asked if anyone had noticed a
phasing issue when blending between the two pair is because
I had heard a sample of a blending of mics in this array and
there seemed to be some sort of a conflict betweeen the
mics which made things sound worse. [This sample I heard
was somewhere on this board but I'm not able to find that
particular sample anymore.] I had assumed that the conflict
may have been a phasing issue but it could have possibly
been some other conflict between the mics, I suppose.
I believe someone said that there could be a conflict in this
array due to different brands of mics not working well
with each other.

Brands would be last thing I would suspect. I was in my case, trying to blend 2 different patterns of main pairs. Omins at 40 inches is hardly wide enough to be used as flanks (in the main array). Which would be the only reason to combine the ORTF with omnis. If the ORFT was 3 feet closer to the source, I could mono them (a bit) and then make some sort of convoluted decca tree.

boojum · 30th March 2011

Hooboy. You guys are making me nervous now. Check this track and tell me what you think. This it the ORTF + AB rig plus SBD.

Please, if you hear a problem, tell me so that I can learn something.

Thanks.

Don S · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by boojum

Hooboy. You guys are making me nervous now. Check this track and tell me what you think. This it the ORTF + AB rig plus SBD.

Please, if you hear a problem, tell me so that I can learn something.

Thanks.

I should have mentioned (although my company name implies) that I record mostly classical music. Balance and image are prime factors in making a good classical recording. I don't hear any problems, although I wish the vocals had the same amount of presence as the kit. If the ORTF will bring the vocals a little forward, I would use a little more. But overall good job!

Brackish · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don S

Omins at 40 inches is hardly wide enough to be used as flanks (in the main array).

40 inches? It seems that most using the array being talked about
here are going about 40 centimeters. Or maybe you meant centimeters?

I could see how 40 inches would be more inclined to introduce phasing issues.

jnorman · 30th March 2011

brack - flanks are very often several feet apart.

boojum · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brackish

40 inches? It seems that most using the array being talked about
here are going about 40 centimeters. Or maybe you meant centimeters?

I could see how 40 inches would be more inclined to introduce phasing issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnorman

brack - flanks are very often several feet apart.

True, but in this Rube Gioldberg rig they are usually ~40cm. I ran them tonight at about 45cm.

boojum · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don S

I should have mentioned (although my company name implies) that I record mostly classical music. Balance and image are prime factors in making a good classical recording. I don't hear any problems, although I wish the vocals had the same amount of presence as the kit. If the ORTF will bring the vocals a little forward, I would use a little more. But overall good job!

Don, thanks for the input. I will go back in and tweak the mix some more. Most of the vocal track is the SBD with some ORTF. Let me fiddle with it some.

Brackish · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by boojum

Most of the vocal track is the SBD ...

How important do you feel the soundboard feed is?

I'm undecided if I should include a soundboard feed in the capture
or go with just the two mic pairs.

boojum · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brackish

How important do you feel the soundboard feed is?

I'm undecided if I should include a soundboard feed in the capture
or go with just the two mic pairs.

It is important in this instance as it carries the vocals more than the ORTF/AB portion does. They get it, but it sounds receded into the mix. For that little extra punch I like the amp'ed up SBD feed. Unfortunately it is always "straight up" or mono.

Don S · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brackish

40 inches? It seems that most using the array being talked about
here are going about 40 centimeters. Or maybe you meant centimeters?

I could see how 40 inches would be more inclined to introduce phasing issues.

After years of recording with a pair of MK2H's, I like the sound at 36-40 inches. The 2 feet (AB) spacing sounded very congested to me. I record mostly orchestra concerts and prefer a larger soundstage. I like my MK21's in an ORTF at about 12-18 inches.

Tom McC · 30th March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don S

I like my MK21's in an ORTF at about 12-18 inches.

Tut. tut Don - using a precisely-defined arrangement, ORTF, as a convenient lazy shorthand for 'semi-coincident' or 'closely spaced', knowing full well that neither the mic pattern nor the spacing qualifies for ORTF. That's like saying you prefer your blue paint to be green coloured

Don S · 31st March 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom McC

Tut. tut Don - using a precisely-defined arrangement, ORTF, as a convenient lazy shorthand for 'semi-coincident' or 'closely spaced', knowing full well that neither the mic pattern nor the spacing qualifies for ORTF. That's like saying you prefer your blue paint to be green coloured

Yes, I stand corrected! I like my MK21's at 100-110 degrees starting about 12 inches. You are correct that ORTF is 110 degrees at 17cm. We need to be specific as audio professionals.

jnorman · 31st March 2011

i know - we'll call that the "don s array"

joelpatterson · 31st March 2011

*whimpers in a corner, wondering when someone is going to name a mic array after ME!*

jnorman · 31st March 2011

okay jp - you get the "joelpatterson wooden spoon array"

joelpatterson · 1st April 2011

I knew this would be one of those things I'd pray for and end up regretting...

Don S · 1st April 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

I knew this would be one of those things I'd pray for and end up regretting...

Join the crowd...!

31st March 2011	#75
joelpatterson Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 9,509	whimpers in a corner, wondering when someone is going to name a mic array after ME!** __________________ Mountaintop Studios ~the peak of perfection~ Petersburgh NY 12138 mountaintop@taconic.net www.joelpatterson.us

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30th March 2011	#66
jnorman Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,807 2 Reviews written	brack - flanks are very often several feet apart.

1st April 2011	#77
joelpatterson Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 9,509	I knew this would be one of those things I'd pray for and end up regretting...