Help designing mobile recording "chest"

[Vagodeoz]

Here is the idea.
I live in Bolivia, I studied Sound and Music Production in Argentina.
I have been doing recordings for about 5 years and mobile recodings for about 2.
I am stablishing my studio "brand" and I have been thinking that I love doing live/field recordings, and I want it to be one of my areas of expertise.
So businesswise I`m thinking it`s probably a good idea to stablish the brand of the mobile recording studio, besides of the regular studio.
In Bolivia there are probably only two people who do field recordings, and they are engineers with their own studios who once in a while take a couple of their equipment and a laptop and record a gig or something.
I do the same. I use a Tascam US1641, but I have been thinking that a huge step in the process of stablishing the brand of the mobile studio is to have a mobile studio itself.
Obviously a truck would be awesome, but let`s get realistic. It`s a fourth world country.

Now, why I tell you all this? Becouse the two main funtions of the recording chest will be: Maximizing setup time, and giving a "WOW" factor, both to audience and to musicians.
Not a very hard thing to do for a country that barely records one or maybe two live gigs a year, but still I want a great design.
Basicly it must work both as a mobile rig, and a marketing gadget.

For example, one great idea the other day for publicity.
I was recording a live gig and a friend came up and said hello.
We talked for a little while and she said she wanted to hear through my headphones.
When she did, she made a face like she coudln`t belive it. She put them in and out a couple of times to hear the difference and she told me she was complitely amazed.
As you can imagine, we don`t have great equipment or great acoustics in venues, so it`s not hard to get something that sounds better than the PA. (When I`m recording I only use volumes and panning for monitoring, which is what she heard)
In a guitar solo I even soloed the guitar and she was like "WOOOW, HOW DO YOU DO THAT?!"
So my million dollar idea is to include a headphone amp in the rig, so I can have one headphone for me, one for my assistant sitting next to me, and a free one for someone from the audience who wants to hear.
Of course there would have to be a rule like no more than a song per person or something, and I don`t want every single drunk person in the concert making a line to hear it, but I think that if I can get a good balance it can work very good.
For example, if I put a little piece of paper that says "Listen the Vox Populi Sound here for free" or something like that, then the only people who will hear it and ask are the ones that are already closeby and taking a look at it, therefore being interested in the subject.
(BTW, Vox Populi is the name of my studio).
So if I can get 10 or 20 people who are interested in the subject to hear through headphones every gig, and give each one a business card or a compilation CD of our work, it`s likely that one of them has a band, or a friend/relative who has a band, and will tell them about this crazy thing they saw and heart at the gig.
I think it`s a great way to make a fuzz. (and probably to get laid too :P )

So any similar ideas are more than welcome.



So, let`s get together all the important points and requirements I need (will be updated as new ones appear).

Main Requirements:
- Look: As fancy and "WOW" as possible.
- Funcionality: It must record 16 tracks (14 lines from the mixer and 2 ambs) and in the near future be able to do a back-up recording of also 16 tracks.
- Construction: Highly durable, yet as light as possible.
- Size: I want it to be about 40x20x27. It`s not definitive but I think it`s a good start for what I need. Must accomodate 2 racks one next to the other.
- Extras: Be able to hold 2 portable chairs, 2 stands (without the base), lots of cables, small recording snake, some gobos, mikes and probably a laptop, although it`s not mandatory.
- Fixed Studio: Since most of my gear will be fixed there, most of the time when I`m not doing field/live recordings it will be laying in my studio and will be the "heart" of it. Except that I will use my desktop PC instead of a Laptop. So it will work simply as a rack.

Optional:
- Lights
- Built-in speakers

Design in the next post.

[Vagodeoz]

Ok, here is the very rough design in google sketchup.
The basic idea is this:Two people will be there, me (right) and my assistant (left).
The right part is the main one. The Laptop, The Interface, the Headphone Amp and a Fast Track Pro (which I`ll use as a Preamp and AD converter for my stero mikes).
The left part will hold two drawers (one for cables, and one for mics, DIs, cable testers, handycam and stuff), and my Behringer Xenyx 2442 Fx mixer on top of it. I don`t have a defined role for it but sometimes I will use it for PA in a small gig that I will also record.
But mostly, i want to leave that space from now becouse when it comes out, I will buy the Behringer UFX1604, which is very close to my xenyx, but with the exception that it has a built in 16 track recorder, which records on a USB flash or hard drive.
I will use this as a back-up recorder, and if I find a reliable way to sync it with my Tascam, use them as a 32 track recorder.

For the lid, In the design it`s thick except the two sides.
For most of the lid (or all of it) I want to put mineral wool, a thin layer of wood and some acoustic panels for studio walls.
This is for two reasons: I want to take care of my ears, and recording a lot of live gigs means a lot of loud music for long periods of time.
If I am behind it, it should reduce some dBs from the direct sound of the PA, reducing both the level I hear from the PA, and the level I need in my headphones.
And the acoustic material to give it a wow factor and in some field recordings where I might need to bring monitors, reducing the coloration of the room.
The spaces I might or might not leave on the sides is for an idea I had last night.
I`m sure some of you have heard about Bill Fitzmaurize and his speakers.
Those spaces would be to put a modification of their SLA line array speakers.
I can only fit 4 woofers there but I it would worth a shot.
This would be useful and should give a pretty good wow factor :P, but I need a power amp just for that, so for now it`s a little difficult. However I might leave the space for a future upgrade.

The part in the bottom back, is a long compartment wich would be accessed through one of the sides of the chest and would hold two mic stands (without the base) and two foldable chairs. There are some good ones that end up real small. Like 3 inch diameter.
I will post another drawing later explaining why the two mic stands without the base.


When the doors and the lid are closed, it is supposed to look like a regular gear chest.
And before you mention it, I though a lot about a splitter snake, but for now it`s out of my budget, and for the size of the works I do, I think it`s more practical to use the lines from the mixer, since usually gigs have crappy stuff and always something fails, and I don`t want having PA operators blaming me for some bad cable or something.

Comments? Ideas?

[GuySonic]

It seems most attempting remove live type of recording try to approach using studio mics/multitrack methods. While this can be satisfying, the extensive setup and post mix cost/time places practical limitations on doing such projects in this manner.

Suggest considering a more direct approach using a single stereo-surround mic. Yes, your equipment 'wow factor' goes down with simple gear configuration, but the results are mostly of equal or higher quality than if done using more conventional studio multi-track setups.

Suggest a visit to my site's live performance recordings page with gear notes to see the gear and hear the results in stereo surround sound using a single custom built HRTF array mic and stereo recorder system.

Here is just one of hundreds of live recordings posted for listening on this page: http://74.208.10.48/mp3/wbkset1.mp3

[Vagodeoz]

I happen to halfway agree with you.
You can get good results with a stereo mic. If you have a good room, if you have great musicians, if you have a great PA engineer, and if the genre allows it.
I have done a lot of classical recordings with only two mics, but most live recordings I do is live festivals with bands that range from funk to rock, metal, reggae...
I do put a stero ambience mike next to where I am with my gear (in front of the stage next to the mixer) but it`s just not enough to get a good sound on a live rock performance. Especially since I do many recordings in outdoor festivals and the wind can be terrible in my city.

I think your recording sounds very good for a stero recording, but I think the brasses are way too loud, which you can hardly do anything about it on a stereo recording...
So stereo recording is out of the question, especially having everything to record multitrack
However I have gotten great sounding ambience tracks, but in the right venue with the right PA engineer and equipment.

[avebr]

Hello Vagodeoz,

I think you are on the right way but to me it appears that constructing something as you sketched would be harder to transport and move. I would suggest you to use standard racks, like those from skb or gator at least, or stronger/custom/better ones.

If you would only use your own vehicle - and if it's not that big!, you should split your equip. on smaller racks, like 2 and 4 units maximum (8 u. start to get too big and heavy). And have bags of hard-fabric for specific things: ac cables/multicables, mic/line cables, snakes/splits, tools, stands, etc..

If you have a bigger car/van (or if you use/rent transport truck), you can use bigger racks with wheels and more protective/strong racks and cases (forget about the bags of hard-fabric).

This is all more or less how I work here. It's much easier to bring back equip. to studio (your or 3rd party) on rack units. I've also learned that you must put the same equips. on the same cases/racks/bags/etc... and to have everything you need and many more with you (essential items in double, and I always bring my on ac regulators, no-breaks,...). And checklist pre-,during- and post- each event.

As you are working with live material (so no 2nd chance!), you should think too about a backup recording system! And keep your eyes on everything, specially the mics and small items...

It's a tough job, but it can be great. And you will learn a lot.


all the best,
ave.

[Vagodeoz]

Hi avebr.
Thanks for the reply.
About weight and movility.
First, it will have wheels, so it will be lifted only to get it in and out of a car for each gig, for everything else I just drag it.
And about racks, it might be as tall as an 8 rack unit, but I don't plan to use more than 2 or 3 rack units.
It`s taller so I can use it as a working desktop in the gig and put the laptop and the mixer on top of it.
But the only heavy equipment I will have there will be my Tascam US1641 (1 Rack), the Behringer Mixer, (in the left) a small headphones amp and a Fast Track Pro.
So it shoudn`t be that heavy, especially if you are only lifting it for a couple of seconds each time.
Also I want to get as close as possible to: Getting in the venue, opening the chest, connecting the power cord, connecting the recording snake, turning on the equipment, and recording.
I have though about it for a while and I think in my case it`s better to build a custom one, since the only racks that I can find here are way to standart for what I need.

[Remoteness]

To GuySonic:

Please do me a solid and DO NOT upload your pictures directly to your post, especially large ones!

Make sure you attach them instead; I spend much too much time having to modify each and every post.

Quite a few of you already know the drill, and I was hoping you will also join in on the attachment (only) mindset.

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Hi avebr.
Thanks for the reply.
About weight and movility.
First, it will have wheels, so it will be lifted only to get it in and out of a car for each gig, for everything else I just drag it.
And about racks, it might be as tall as an 8 rack unit, but I don't plan to use more than 2 or 3 rack units.
It`s taller so I can use it as a working desktop in the gig and put the laptop and the mixer on top of it.
But the only heavy equipment I will have there will be my Tascam US1641 (1 Rack), the Behringer Mixer, (in the left) a small headphones amp and a Fast Track Pro.
So it shoudn`t be that heavy, especially if you are only lifting it for a couple of seconds each time.
Also I want to get as close as possible to: Getting in the venue, opening the chest, connecting the power cord, connecting the recording snake, turning on the equipment, and recording.
I have though about it for a while and I think in my case it`s better to build a custom one, since the only racks that I can find here are way to standart for what I need.

Good luck with your venture. To me your rig looks nightmarishly big and heavy--hard to find space for at live music venues, obstructing of the sight lines of audience members who might be behind you, awkward to move in and out of passenger cars, doors, up and down stairs etc.. Maybe you already have your position worked out at the places you record and they'll make room for you--I hope so. A rig that I can't move alone if I have to is too big for me--I'd echo the suggestion to make it out of smaller modules that you hook together on site.

phil p

[Vagodeoz]

Hi Steve!
I have been reading a lot of your posts lately and I have learned a lot from them.
You seem to be the Alan Parson of field recording e
I was hoping you might come around my post since, but not just for imposing forum rules... :P
Could you please tell me what you think about my design?
In your years of recording have you seen a design similar. What pros/cons do you see in it?
Thanks a lot for your time :D

[Remoteness]

Have you clicked on the 'build for remote' popular tag?
There a lot of cool threads that you may interested in.

As you may already know, I've designed and built remote recording rigs since I was 18 years old.

...And, I've learned a lot over the years; I now understand that you must build systems for there appropriate purpose.

Building a large and/or heavy system is not the issue; where you intend to use it is I'm afraid!

The design you showed use seems like it would be great for medium to large tour situations where the rig will live in the trailer while in transit and be loaded in and out via local arena crew to a dressing room or location of your choice; usually on the same floor as the loading dock your truck is parked in.

I have design large rigs, but they are addressed and used accordingly.
Well, sort of; plenty of folks complain on how heavy my road cases are.

We also have "SKB" rack systems when you just want to throw the gear into the back seat or trunk of your car.

Most of the time we're loading medium to large racks in vans or trucks with the proper crew availability. When we are short on crew, we ask to have local (load-in/load-out) personnel to make our lives a little bit easier.

Sometimes, you're lucky if you even have one crew member available to you, so designing an efficient system is always your best bet.

Way back when, I designed a splitter system that not only had 40 channels of active BSS splitters, but it carried all our accessories and accoutrements.
I mean, every adapter and connector were in those cubby bins.

That rack was seriously heavy; it was so heavy Robert Carvell named it "Big Bertha." The funny thing is, your design looks very similar to "Big Bertha."

We did a gig not to long ago with three or four flights of stairs.
Some the racks we use today weigh at least 200 lbs, but I had the client provide us with four strong (like bull) workers to get our gear up and down those stairs.

Here's a few pictures of Big Bertha back in the day.

Believe it or not, I'm thinking of bringing it back into play as a work box or something to that affect...

My crew wants no part of that dynamic.

Originally Posted by Vagodeoz

Hi Steve!
I have been reading a lot of your posts lately and I have learned a lot from them.
You seem to be the Alan Parson of field recording e
I was hoping you might come around my post since, but not just for imposing forum rules... :P
Could you please tell me what you think about my design?
In your years of recording have you seen a design similar. What pros/cons do you see in it?
Thanks a lot for your time :D

[Vagodeoz]

Thanks Steve and everyone for your input!
The Big Bertha does look quite nice :D especially the doors!!
I though about using the doors for something but I had something waaay smaller in my mind, like a patch bay for headphones or something like that.
Nice design indeed :D How much did that weight? Was it liftable?

So anyway, I got seriously thinking about the weight, and I started doing some math.
I weighted my gear and my setup will be between 50 and 70 pounds, maaaaybe 80 pounds once in a while if it`s a long trip to record an album on a remote house for example.
This includes everything except the case: Mixer, Interface, Cables, Snakes, Stands, Foldable chairs...
I really have no idea how much the case will weight, but I`m guessing it won`t be more than 40 pounds, right?
So it`s an average of 100 pounds, probably less, since I will bring both my Tascam and my mixer in special locations only.
Do you still consider it too heavy considering other rigs, and considering it will have wheels?
Most venues I record in have no stairs. I have recorded only two gigs (out of about 30 I have recorded) where I needed to lift my gear through stairs, and both were through veeeery tight ladders through a veeeeeeeeeeeeery tight hole in the roof.
If I need to do one of those again, I always can return to my old configuration. I take out my Tascam out from the chest and voila! Since in those locations I can`t lift a regular rack through those stairs anyway.

So, you still recommend against it? Or do you think it can be handled?