Recording Helicopters from My Roof

[soupking]

I'm doing a shoot for a film. It involves helicopters outside the building. Long story short, it'd really help to record helicopters flying overhead above my apartment.

It's for a visual piece that uses the sound. I can't always predict it which is the real hard part. If I could activate a switch from down below to catch them that would be sweet, so sweet I'd do it for fun! It wouldn't even have to match the picture.

Is there anything anybody can tell me on what I need for this kind of audio capture? Limiting? Mics? Positioning?

I think this might be a new hobby for me.

Thanks for reading and any advice.

Peace,
-soupking

[satellitedog]

Wouldn't it be easier to take a couple of hours one day, go to an airfield/landing pad of some news stations, or sightseeing helicopter tours where there are regular take offs and general flying around? I mean if it's not necessary to be in your apartment, of course.

It would probably be a quicker job than wiring the roof.

Just checked out some heli-tours, and there are organized ones from 8am-8pm starting from Compton Woodley Airport.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by satellitedog

Wouldn't it be easier to take a couple of hours one day, go to an airfield/landing pad of some news stations, or sightseeing helicopter tours where there are regular take offs and general flying around? I mean if it's not necessary to be in your apartment, of course.

It would probably be a quicker job than wiring the roof.

Just checked out some heli-tours, and there are organized ones from 8am-8pm starting from Compton Woodley Airport.

That's good thinking, but the ones over my apartment circle like they're in search of somebody. It's perfect for the affect I'm going for.

Yeah, wiring sounds complex, but it I had a quick to trigger set-up that wouldn't get to loud or distort that would be great.

[satellitedog]

Well, then you'll just have to do it and see if it works...

Does it have to be the roof? Have you tried recording from the window(s)?

[soupking]

Originally Posted by satellitedog

Well, then you'll just have to do it and see if it works...

Does it have to be the roof? Have you tried recording from the window(s)?

No, but that's not a bad idea at all. I do.

Would I just get a standard shotgun mic for this kind of application?

[PoxyMusic]

This may or may not work for you, but feel free to use it if you want. I own the copyright and give my permission. I guess that applies to anyone, since I'm putting it up here!

Those dogs are barking at me, btw. I put my mic on the roof of the car and am flapping my arms at them like an idiot to get them to bark...the house echoes really say "LA" to me. Heli goes by at about :50.

[satellitedog]

Well, I'd try and ask some film-sound /foley recordists, or classical people who record stereo in large spaces.

Don't shotgun mics have a very tight pattern? That might not be helpful at all...

[soupking]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

This may or may not work for you, but feel free to use it if you want. I own the copyright and give my permission. I guess that applies to anyone, since I'm putting it up here!

Those dogs are barking at me, btw. I put my mic on the roof of the car and am flapping my arms at them like an idiot to get them to bark...the house echoes really say "LA" to me. Heli goes by at about :50.

Wow, that's actually really pretty cool. Thanks for letting me use it. This is a personal project, so it's not like...it's whale or anything. I'd be happy to give credits for foley or whatever's cool with you.

That would work really well for a 2nd layer background track. As if there were more helicopters in the area. The dogs really help add to the filler effect for sure.

In all, thanks again for posting it PoxyMusic. That's really pretty cool. I'll have to re-visit this link during post for sure. :D

[soupking]

Originally Posted by satellitedog

Well, I'd try and ask some film-sound /foley recordists, or classical people who record stereo in large spaces.

Don't shotgun mics have a very tight pattern? That might not be helpful at all...

I know, that's what I was thinking. Like quiet to super load and then back to nothing again as the signal would over pass. Either that or I'd feel like I was in the damn thing. lol

I feel like I need like a really strong PZM or wide-patterend omni style condenser of some kind. I have no idea what would work well though.

[satellitedog]

I'd probably start with either a cardioid or hyper-cardioid, trying to minimise direct traffic-noise and the close reflections (if there's heavy motorized traffic) bouncing off the outer wall of the building by positioning, and making sure to get a good "air-to-ground" signal balance too (this of course needs testing when the choppers are circling round), and a mic with smooth off axis-on axis response shift could work well in context.
It would also be interesting to hear differences of relatively "dry" airborne helicopter sounds compared to a mix of the airborne vs. outside wall reflected sound. It could well end up giving a very urban sound to the recording, if that's needed.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

This may or may not work for you, but feel free to use it if you want. I own the copyright and give my permission. I guess that applies to anyone, since I'm putting it up here!

Those dogs are barking at me, btw. I put my mic on the roof of the car and am flapping my arms at them like an idiot to get them to bark...the house echoes really say "LA" to me. Heli goes by at about :50.

Hey Poxy-
That was fun! And it's a fun stereo image, too. So, you put the mic on the roof of the car. What sort of mic or array did you use?

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by soupking

I feel like I need like a really strong PZM or wide-patterend omni style condenser of some kind. I have no idea what would work well though.

If it's just the Helicopters your after, a short shotgun or supercardiod should work fine...try recording with the mic stationary as it flies by as well as following it, see which you prefer later, when you cut edit to the picture.

Don't use a PZM! Wrong mic for that situation. I'd avoid omins also, unless you want all the background traffic rumble. Try to record everything you want separately, and adjust them to taste later.

Don't worry, using a shotgun wont sound like your inside the copter!

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Hey Poxy-
That was fun! And it's a fun stereo image, too. So, you put the mic on the roof of the car. What sort of mic or array did you use?

That was a Neuman RSM 191. Its an MS mic, front capsule is a short shotgun, sides are figure 8. The great thing about it is that you don't have to fiddle around getting your angles right, as you would with XY or ORTF. I actually prefer ORTF, but it can be a real hassle to setup sometimes.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

If it's just the Helicopters your after, a short shotgun or supercardiod should work fine...try recording with the mic stationary as it flies by as well as following it, see which you prefer later, when you cut edit to the picture.

Don't use a PZM! Wrong mic for that situation. I'd avoid omins also, unless you want all the background traffic rumble. Try to record everything you want separately, and adjust them to taste later.

Don't worry, using a shotgun wont sound like your inside the copter!

Hehe, cool. I'll look for a short shotgun mic then, maybe with a stereo capsule? Would that be the way to go you think or just mono?

I'd probably just be pointing out the window through the screen up into the air above as it circles.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by soupking

Hehe, cool. I'll look for a short shotgun mic then, maybe with a stereo capsule? Would that be the way to go you think or just mono?

Well, if your going to fill in the rest of the ambience with traffic rumble and whatnot, then mono may be an easier an cheaper way to go.

Don't fear the mono!

Another good thing about MS mics is that if end up deciding to use only mono, simply pan both sides to center, and the stereo component vanishes. MS (and stereo in general) mics will be more expensive to rent though.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

Well, if your going to fill in the rest of the ambience with traffic rumble and whatnot, then mono may be an easier an cheaper way to go.

Don't fear the mono!

Another good thing about MS mics is that if end up deciding to use only mono, simply pan both sides to center, and the stereo component vanishes. MS (and stereo in general) mics will be more expensive to rent though.

Cool, I'm looking to buy, so I'll probably just get mono. What's a solid brand do you think? Sennheiser?

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by soupking

Cool, I'm looking to buy, so I'll probably just get mono. What's a solid brand do you think? Sennheiser?

Rode NTG3 is a really good choice. Nice mics, and priced VERY reasonably.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by soupking

Hehe, cool. I'll look for a short shotgun mic then, maybe with a stereo capsule? Would that be the way to go you think or just mono?

I'd probably just be pointing out the window through the screen up into the air above as it circles.

If you're looking for shotgun, there have been some amazing "blowouts" on the Sennheiser MKH stereo design of some years past. I don't recall the number, but perhaps Señor Willett can come up with that. They may be gone by now.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

That was a Neuman RSM 191. Its an MS mic, front capsule is a short shotgun, sides are figure 8. The great thing about it is that you don't have to fiddle around getting your angles right, as you would with XY or ORTF. I actually prefer ORTF, but it can be a real hassle to setup sometimes.

Thanks, Poxy. I use MS all the time, so no problem. I've not gotten the chance to use the 191.

Anyway, it has a great feel about it. I'm in a high rise in an urban center (with access to the roof, of course!) so I can imagine many interesting scenarios. Yours does sound very LA, and very locale specific. I can almost feel the air. No pops, though, only dogs-no bullets? The dogs contributed to this tense stillness/waiting for something to happen quality about the whole thing.

You should post more of these things. Liked it. A great addition to the usual genres here.

[soupking]

Cool, thanks Poxy and everybody! That'll give me a great start on what to expect when looking for a mic.

The best recording option would probably be straight to laptop, so I'll try that first.

Peace,
-soup

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by soupking

The best recording option would probably be straight to laptop, so I'll try that first.

An inexpensive flash recorder with decent mic pre's is sooo much easier! The DR-100 is cheap and very good. There are many others.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by JEGG

An inexpensive flash recorder with decent mic pre's is sooo much easier! The DR-100 is cheap and very good. There are many others.

Cool. I have an Apogee Duet. That sounds a lot easier as I'm not all that excited about bringing my laptop into the bedroom at night. My wife might start wondering what's going on.

[JEGG]

You might just set things up and let them run. You can check later to see if you got anything. Repeat as needed.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by JEGG

You might just set things up and let them run. You can check later to see if you got anything. Repeat as needed.

That would be ideal. Go to bed, then if I wake up to noise or hear something, remember to check the tape. Like trying to catch ghosts or something.

[PoxyMusic]

Originally Posted by soupking

...bringing my laptop into the bedroom at night. My wife might start wondering what's going on.

This thread has taken a turn for the AWESOME!

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by soupking

... bringing my laptop into the bedroom at night. My wife might start wondering what's going on.

Originally Posted by PoxyMusic

This thread has taken a turn for the AWESOME!

Agreed. He can still bring the laptop if he presents it as her idea, and asks her to join him in imagining the possibilities.

[soupking]

Heh, you guys are pretty quick.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by soupking

Heh, you guys are pretty quick.

Let us know how it works out with the helicopters and all.

[Lenzo]

That's good thinking, but the ones over my apartment circle like they're in search of somebody.

If I had helicopters over my place on a regular basis, I'd be wondering about the neighborhood. Good luck.
L.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Let us know how it works out with the helicopters and all.

Heh , will do!