Comments and Criticism on New Mobile Recording Rig

[misa]

I am putting together a 24-channel mobile recording rig to capture some of the local music (mainly targeting rock/indie style bands) in San Antonio, TX and wanted opinions on my proposed setup. 90% sure I'm going with the following equipment, but would appreciate comments and suggestions on how to improve things within reason.

Not overly concerned about mics at the moment as I have an assortment of dynamic, small, medium, and large condenser mics that I can use if need be and mainly planning to tap into available on-stage mics through a mic splitter. So here goes:

(3) ART S8 2-way mic splitters (transformers and ground switches) on stage in rack case - one line for venue and one line for recording

XLR-XLR snake for mic splitter to venue stage snake - 10' to 25'
XLR-XLR snake for mic splitter to recording equipment - 100' to 150'

going into second rack with
(3) Mackie 800r mic pres with analog outs via 5' DB25-TRS snakes to a
(1) Alesis HD24XR
and digital outs via 4' ADAT to a
(1) Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe.

Presonus interface via Firewire to Macbook Pro dual-core running either Reaper, Logic Studio, or Ableton Live. Haven't considered external drives for recording yet.

Apogee Big Ben generating clock via BNC to Mackie pres and Presonus interface. Monitoring through headphone outs on Presonus interface with Audio-Technica ATH-M50 closed back headphones.

Power via Furman PL-8C.

I feel like this is a pretty sound setup, but wanted to see if there were any suggestions for improvement or things I should watch out for. Some of my questions would be: What kind of XLR-XLR snakes should I be looking at to have flexibility when working in small venues vs. larger ones? Leaning towards using Reaper as the DAW because of its simplicity, but would Logic or Ableton handle just as well? Does Reaper make recording to an external drive easier? With the Firewire port taken up by the Presonus interface, would a USB external drive suffice? Should I also have the Big Ben clocking the Alesis HD24XR? Would I run into problems later on mixing the Alesis tracks with the DAW recorded ones if they are not all clocked by the Big Ben?

Fairly new to all this but have been researching as much as I could on the forums, trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks for the help.

[philper]

Originally Posted by misa

I am putting together a 24-channel mobile recording rig to capture some of the local music (mainly targeting rock/indie style bands) in San Antonio, TX and wanted opinions on my proposed setup. 90% sure I'm going with the following equipment, but would appreciate comments and suggestions on how to improve things within reason.

Not overly concerned about mics at the moment as I have an assortment of dynamic, small, medium, and large condenser mics that I can use if need be and mainly planning to tap into available on-stage mics through a mic splitter. So here goes:

(3) ART S8 2-way mic splitters (transformers and ground switches) on stage in rack case - one line for venue and one line for recording

XLR-XLR snake for mic splitter to venue stage snake - 10' to 25'
XLR-XLR snake for mic splitter to recording equipment - 100' to 150'

going into second rack with
(3) Mackie 800r mic pres with analog outs via 5' DB25-TRS snakes to a
(1) Alesis HD24XR
and digital outs via 4' ADAT to a
(1) Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe.

Presonus interface via Firewire to Macbook Pro dual-core running either Reaper, Logic Studio, or Ableton Live. Haven't considered external drives for recording yet.

Apogee Big Ben generating clock via BNC to Mackie pres and Presonus interface. Monitoring through headphone outs on Presonus interface with Audio-Technica ATH-M50 closed back headphones.

Power via Furman PL-8C.

I feel like this is a pretty sound setup, but wanted to see if there were any suggestions for improvement or things I should watch out for. Some of my questions would be: What kind of XLR-XLR snakes should I be looking at to have flexibility when working in small venues vs. larger ones? Leaning towards using Reaper as the DAW because of its simplicity, but would Logic or Ableton handle just as well? Does Reaper make recording to an external drive easier? With the Firewire port taken up by the Presonus interface, would a USB external drive suffice? Should I also have the Big Ben clocking the Alesis HD24XR? Would I run into problems later on mixing the Alesis tracks with the DAW recorded ones if they are not all clocked by the Big Ben?

Fairly new to all this but have been researching as much as I could on the forums, trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks for the help.

Clock all of it together, from the same clock.

phil p

[misa]

Thanks for the post!

Was I correct in thinking that if I later wanted to combine WAV files from the HD24 with those recorded by DAW, it would be beneficial that they were both on the same clock while recording?

[RobAnderson]

Looks to me like you have done your homework before posting, so kudos to you.

From what I understand, Mac's don't do well with recording audio to USB drives. However, you should not have a problem daisy chaining a HDD and your interface on a single Firewire port if:
A-you put the HDD first in the chain and
B-you keep your cable runs short (i.e. <1m) - especially between the HDD and the MacBook.

Of course, check the documentation from the Presonus, but I imagine it will give the above advice.

If you wish to combine the tracks from the DAW with those from the HD24, you would be better off if everything was being clocked together. However, If your clock decides to take a dump one evening, it could take down both your master and safety recorders, so it may be better to have the HD24 freewheeling on its own internal clock since you will have to clock the DAW and pre's externally.

[philper]

Originally Posted by misa

Thanks for the post!

Was I correct in thinking that if I later wanted to combine WAV files from the HD24 with those recorded by DAW, it would be beneficial that they were both on the same clock while recording?

You may notice a diff in the length of the files between systems if you record a long show and don't clock all your gear together, since the internal clocks in the HD24 and the interfaces are not very accurate and not temperature compensated, ie the systems are running at slightly different speeds. But if you do clock them all together you have to do your homework and have a really stable system w/ good cables and connectors. The number one issue I've had with MT digital location recording on any system has been flaky clocks + connections causing audio artifacts.

phil p

[molownia]

I have a very similar setup: Presonus Firestudio plus 2 additional 8 ch ADAT pres, analog outputs routed to HD24 and ART S8 splits.

I had used Firestudio Lightpipe before and it was very solid. The only problem was when I daisy chained FW drive the software control of the FS Lightpipe froze sometimes. It was still passing audio but couldn't adjust the mix in my headphones.
I used USB drives with this setup too, running Reaper, recorded 3.5hr live event, 20 tracks with no single problem.

[misa]

Thanks all for the tips. I guess as most things, it really comes down to testing your own system in your own environment.

From what I hear, this should be a decent setup, and then it just comes down to testing the system. I should be getting the components in within the next couple of weeks and be able to see how everything works together. Hopefully they all play nice.

[Richard King]

Sounds somewhat similar to my rig. I have an S83way, a Presonus Firestudio, a Presonus Digimax FS, and an ART Digital MPA (into the Firestudio by Spdif), and, if I need it, a second Firestudio that can be Firewire linked to the first one. I record into an HP AMD Quad core PC. I have a 24x4x100' snake to the stage. I do mostly SMALL clubs where the band is mostly only micing vocals and kick, so I don't need more than the 8 splits. I typically end up with about 15 channels on most jobs. Some samples can be found here: http://soundcloud.com/richard-king A picture of the rig can be found here: IMG_9672 cropped fixed copy.jpg photo - Richard King photos at pbase.com

[jabney]

Originally Posted by philper

You may notice a diff in the length of the files between systems if you record a long show and don't clock all your gear together, since the internal clocks in the HD24 and the interfaces are not very accurate and not temperature compensated, ie the systems are running at slightly different speeds. ...

The HD24 is designed to run at 48k and does so as accurately as you are likely to need. 44k1 on an HD24 is not as long-term accurate as 48k. And since I like to tell my ears they can still hear a little more sparkle at 48k then it makes using the slightly higher speed a no-brainer for me.

YMMV

best,

john

[misa]

Appears that I'll have a suitable rig seeing others are using similar setups. Looking forward to getting the business underway.

Getting a bit off-topic, do you guys know of some good resources to navigate the legalities of recording? I feel I'm pretty good with starting up the business: have a DBA, business bank accounts, website and domain, and getting in touch with potential customers. Any good places to read or discuss the contracts and agreements involved in doing a live recording for online sale and distribution? What happens if a band I'm recording does a cover song?

My ideal would be having an agreement with a local band to record them and distribute the recording online via a service like "Dropcards" where I would give them a portion of the proceeds, they keep song rights, I get recording rights. If they are on a label, I imagine that brings in a layer of complexity for all parties to reach an agreement. I would think the venue they are playing in would also ask for a cut or some rights for using their space and potentially for using their name in the packaging.

Another option would be to simply charge a fee to perform the recording service, and if the band/label wanted, I could charge an additional fee to setup online distribution through Dropcards or what have you. The band/label keeps the song and recording rights.

Any in-the-field recommendations or suggestions for sorting all this out? Do people usually have liability insurance and the like? I was thinking about starting another thread, but seeing this forum is mainly focused on gear, is there another one that I would get more information from?

Thanks all!

[therecordinghous]

the xlr snake split for going to FOH, i would just use 3 standard 8 channel snakes. there are situations where you may have to reach a stage box on the front of the stage, and one on the back. it will be in your best interest to be prepared for a situation like this.


also, put all your gear in one case. i have a similar setup and it all fits in a 12 space with a power conditioner. the less you have to setup on site, the better.

it will be heavy, but get some nice wheels on the case, or a cart.

[misa]

I was anticipating that situation may arise, so I ended up getting the Planet Waves Modular Snake system, which also gives me the option change the length of each 8-channel snake.

[philper]

Originally Posted by jabney

The HD24 is designed to run at 48k and does so as accurately as you are likely to need. 44k1 on an HD24 is not as long-term accurate as 48k. And since I like to tell my ears they can still hear a little more sparkle at 48k then it makes using the slightly higher speed a no-brainer for me.

YMMV

best,

john

It's not as accurate as I'm likely to need. Without external clock it will not stay in sync with an accurately clocked video camera system etc. for a long show. The internal clocks in the HD24 are not temperature compensated or as accurate as those in a standalone recorder like Nagra/SD etc, which is why we've always sent our clock to guys using HD24s on our jobs.

Phil p

[misa]

UPDATE


Have my equipment together, but unfortunately, ran into a big snag with the Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe. It doesn't like external sync. Had done my research before purchasing, but this potential problem didn't cross my path. It also appears to not be isolated. There is some documentation on YouTube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFb-h1k5um0


My interface reacts a little differently, but same end result: no audio and sporadic actions on the interface. Need to test a bit more on 44.1 and 88.2 to see if even those settings are usable. Seems to work fine when it is set as master clock. Would appreciate advice on what to do next:


Option 1) Keep Presonus Lightpipe, use as master clock and distribute via Apogee Big Ben to other devices


Option 2) Look for alternative interface


M-Audio Lightbridge would be closest replacement, but discontinued and I would prefer a rackable form factor.


Or a 2 ADAT input audio interface with built in mic pres, selling off one of the Mackie 800R. Considering RME UFX, MOTU 896mk3, Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. Plus and minuses for each, wouldn't mind a discussion on which one is a better option. I figure since the Mackie 800Rs are handling AD conversion for the main 16 channels, I don't really need to worry about AD conversion on the interface.

Option 3) Forget about 24 channels as most recordings could be handled adequately with 16 channels, and interface with an Apogee AD-16X with X-Firewire card. Can use its 2 ADAT ins for live recording from Mackie with HD24 as backup, and have the option of going with a lighter setup using Mackie analog ins and Apogee AD conversion.

Any thoughts?