Live TV Audio...how is it done?

[joaquin]

Hello. I posted a similar thread in the postproduction Forum, but I think I may get more info here.
I'm recording sound for some tv shows and "Post" do not want to deal with Audio.
How do I get the best Mono signal from multiple Lavs straight from production...
I'm thinking gates, compresion, EQ...
No scripts, so there's no way to guess dialog in order to deal with phase issues.
How do live tv deal with these?

Thank you for your Help!

[Roland]

Typically all the talent mic's would be open, at least those that are in the discussion at the time. There are a couple of automatic mixers, Shure make one, but the last thing you want to do would be to miss what is being said, it's a typical content over quality scenario.

Compressors/limiters are a definite and a certain amount of eq is possibly likely, especially HPF. Gates, for me would be a no, no, again you don't want to loose what is being said. Phasing between tieclips only really becomes an issue if people are really close, ie, closer than around 3 ft, in discussion/tv environments this would be very unusual.

Roland

[joaquin]

Thank you Roland!
I'll look in to the shure mixers.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[soundthinker]

Joaquin-

Check out the Dan Dugan auto-mixers. The algorithm they use is probably the most sophisticated of all the auto-mixers. We use them all the time for unscripted TV with upwards of 20 people. They don't do your job for you, they just give you a head-start.

Dan Dugan Sound Design

For the record: aside from being a very satisfied customer, I've got no other business connection with Dan Dugan.

Also, depending on budget, having some Cedar DNS units working lightly will help tremendously.

Jim Slanger

[simondog]

Hello

I do this everyday

I use to EQ each lav mic (usually dpa 4060 or cos11) depending on placement and type of voice etc. I often cut around 200 Hz to get rid of rumble. Generally cut, don't boost these kinds of microphones. I then route them to a group and compress the group. You don't want to compress each channel, as it contributes to phaseproblems. If possible, you might want to de-ess as well. Limiter at end of chain.

I then keep faders around -6db and turn up the person speaking. You need to listen closely, be quick on the faders and don't miss anything. You will be good at predicting the conversation after some time

Hope you could use some of this

[joaquin]

Thank you Mr.Slanger.
The Dugan System would be the perfect fit, except for the Price. Unfortunately I don't think the station will provide that kind of budget...I'll ask anyways.
Thank you Simon for sharing your experience. I'm going to add a compressor/Limiter at the end of the chain. I'm going to need a nice VU Meter...
Thanks again for all your Help.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[tourtelot]

If it's a one-ff show, maybe renting the Dugan would be feasible. Lectrosonics also made a fair-to-better-than-that auto mixer which can be found often on eBay. Prices go all over the map but if you have some time, you can find one, sometimes, in the $50 range.

Here is one for $70.

Lectrosonics AM8 Automatic Microphone Mixer w/ Limiter - eBay (item 230578091766 end time Feb-24-11 06:31:33 PST)

8 inputs. If you need more, you'll need more mixers (Either mechanical or human!)

[joaquin]

Thank you Turtelot.
Though I'm a big fan of Lectrosonics, I'd rather not buy discontinued gear...although for that kind of price may be worth the shot.
Do you have an opinion about the Shure 4ch automatic mixer?
This is to be used every day for at least another year, so rental is not an option.
Thank you again for all the info.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[soundthinker]

Originally Posted by joaquin

Thank you Turtelot.
This is to be used every day for at least another year, so rental is not an option.

Check out the Dugan E-1 units; they list at $3200. If you're doing five shows a week, that's something like $13 per show.

Jim Slanger

[joaquin]

Thank you Mr. Slanger!
It sound like a winner to me.
Haven't been able to get out of this phone in to a real computer...i'll read all the info on it asap.
Thanks again!


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[tourtelot]

Yeah, get the Dugan. Everyone (!) will be glad you did.

D.

[simondog]

Any experience on Dugan auto-mixers in really noisy environments?

[soundthinker]

Any experience on Dugan auto-mixers in really noisy environments?

It depends on what you mean by 'really noisy.'

I've used them in a studio that had tons of lighting/fan noise and they really helped to keep the noise floor constant. A constant noise floor reduces the amount of time spent tweaking the Cedar DNS 2000s during the show.

Occasionally if someone who isn't talking hits their microphone the Dugans will pull the people who are speaking down a few dB. You can set the Dugans to minimize this on the star/host's mic.

A random offstage noise like someone dropping a glass will affect all mic equally, but it would have to be fairly loud to actually do anything.

Jim Slanger

[simondog]

Allright... Sounds like a really neat tool.

I was also thinking sports broadcast kind of studios / commentators inside arenas with yelling fancrowds, vuvuzelas and horns 20 ft away from the talents' headset mics - would it be useful here, or will the loud background noise just confuse the Dugan?