How to make money, or how to make MORE money - doing remote recordings

[Jules]

.

[crispy]

A cautionary tale:

I recently did a live recording with my newly aquired RADAR unit hooked up to the main PA desk.
We were all (lighting guys an' all) crammed into one corner of the venue.
Problem was, the PA guys' flying foot caught the power button right at the end of the main bands' set & wiped everything.
I'm still wrangling with everyone to get paid something!!!

So make sure your system is bomb-proof, and you have enough interconnect options to hook up with any system

[studjo]

I thought a Radar doesn't loose its data during a power failure?

[Steffmo]

I think Remote is a growth area. Going to a bands rehearsal space is one thing, live gig stuff obviously. One friend on mine's truck is now doing Clear Channels "get the CD as you leave the concert gig''

Church recordings.....choirs, etc. Its a huge market> I do four or five a year.....do the remote and the post.

When I went to PT I kept the MX2424 for remotes....plus some DA78s for redundant back up.

ALWAYS bring a UPS!!!!!!

[mcguin]

Originally posted by studjo
I thought a Radar doesn't loose its data during a power failure?

it doesn't - RADAR auto backs up every minute or so - the most he should have lost is the last minute or so

dan

[hollywood_steve]

Concerning lost data and hard disk recorders......

First off, given the choice, I would rather have one good quality hard disk recorder (Radar, Genex, and ...um... Radar or Genex) on a location job than a dozen workstations, but they are NOT infallible.

I don't care if the Radar backs up every second, when a hard drive loses power, it has the possibility of losing everything, even stuff that was backed up long before the power went off.

I learned that the hard way when a lighting assistant pulled my plug 10 seconds before the start of a performance. I got things back online within a few seconds of the start of the show, BUT an earlier concert that was stored on the drive was GONE!

I now have a UPS just for my recorder, I'll never lose a show because of a brain dead light switcher again.

[crispy]

Originally posted by mcguin
it doesn't - RADAR auto backs up every minute or so - the most he should have lost is the last minute or so

dan

The first band's set was saved and retained by the RADAR.

But the main band's recording was lost because it was still recording when the power went. Therefore the file write is still open & there's no data written to the Table of Contents.

IZ said they could retrieve the data but I would have to send them the drive & would be costly. Not an option for this project I'm afraid!

Crispy

[hollywood_steve]

IZ said they could retrieve the data but I would have to send them the drive & would be costly. Not an option for this project I'm afraid!


Genex said the same thing when I had my power pulled. I sent them the drive and after 3 weeks I got it back with NO luck. These guys can usually pull rabbits out of hats, but this just proves that when hard drives lose power, all bets are off, and it don't matter how often or how long ago your data was backed up to that drive.

I still believe that a hard disk recorder is by far the best choice for location recording; but a dumb clown with access to your power supply can still cause total system failure.

[Plush]

I believe that a tape format is, by far, the best format for location recording. No problems with disc crashes--we're monitoring the tape.

Also there is ALWAYS a second complete recording being made for safety purposes. To do otherwise is unprofessional.

[Mike Tholen]

Originally posted by Plush
I believe that a tape format is, by far, the best format for location recording. No problems with disc crashes--we're monitoring the tape.

Also there is ALWAYS a second complete recording being made for safety purposes. To do otherwise is unprofessional.

Well done Hud.
Why don't you tell these guys what your running, tell us about your failsafe rig!
Your stuff rocks, and needs to be known.

Best Regards-Mike Tholen
ps-gimme a holler next time your downtown.

[Dave Martin]

I gota go with Plush on this - I'd rather have My DA78's on location than any HD set up - and if I were working with a hard disk recorder (radar, Genex, Pro Tools - whatever), the 78's would be sitting ight behind them as backups.

Of course, I don't do remotes as often as you guys...

[hollywood_steve]

I'll defer on this one...... I really wasn't comparing HD versus tape; I was still on the earlier "dedicated recorder verus workstation rant"

As someone who does do a lot of location work, I still drag a tape recorder to all but the smallest jobs. ( If a friend or a struggling client is getting a low cost deal from me, they might not get the luxury of a backup rig.) But all of the normal paying gigs get at LEAST a 2 track DAT backup.

However, for the primary recorder, my Genex has replaced any tape machine, and there is nothing available at any price that would change my mind regarding the best choice for the primary recorder.

[Fleaman]

I had this brilliant idea in 1991 to start off doing remote recordings. I would record bands in their rehearsal space and/or during gigs at clubs, etc.

The arrival of black face adats in 1992 signaled to me the perfect time to implement this idea. The adats were very portable and at the time, seemed to offer the perfect solution for high quality remote recordings.

For me, as a one-man recording machine, I found that I quickly tired of lugging lots 'o equipment around. The endless task of loading, unloading, setting up (25 mic stands, mics, cables, recorders, compressors, etc., etc.) trying to listen to what your recording on headphones, then breaking down, loading, un-loading, blah, blah, blah.

Get use to arriving before anyone else hrs before to set up and staying hrs later to break down and load, etc.

Not to mention that I had to re-load and set up at home just about everything again to mix and/or do overdubs, etc.

Lets just say that after a while, I figured this just wasn't for me…and I'm a drummer that is use to lugging around a bunch of equip. and setting up stands, etc.

Anyone may want to think about the logistics before they take such a plunge. I started to get real jealous about those who had permanent studios and figured I'd rather do just that.

Of course the number 1 benefit was not paying rent for a studio space. OTOH, you spend a lot of time setting up, loading...that I would of rather spent on recording and mixing, and getting paid for it.

My back (and the above reasons) made me decide I was just not cut out for this type of recording service.

BTW, I never had a problem with my black face adats during that time...unlike others might have had. And if pwr failed, you wouldn't lose your data either. It was a nice piece of mind.



Fleaman

[hollywood_steve]

Lets just say that after a while, I figured this just wasn't for me…and I'm a drummer that is use to lugging around a bunch of equip. and setting up stands, etc.

Its only because I've gigged as a bass player for 20+ years (full Mesa Boogie stack or SVT, never less) that I am not beaten down by the drudgery of humping gear for location work. It can be a royal PITA!

Of course the number 1 benefit was not paying rent for a studio space. OTOH, you spend a lot of time setting up, loading...that I would of rather spent on recording and mixing, and getting paid for it.

Of course, if you get seriously involved in location work, you will still need to rent a studio, if only a control room and a place to store all of your gear. But I'd rather have a nice little control room and record in fantastic halls, than struggle to afford a small, poor sounding live room. And in big city America, thats all most of us could afford.

And when it comes to getting paid, well that's one of the nice little secrets of location work; we do tend to get paid! Although the "competition" increases daily; it seems that another guy with a laptop and a pair of cheap mics announces "pro location recording" services every day in LA.

[Matt@Curbside]

Long time lurker, first time post... hi everyone...

As far as the redundancy issue goes... I think a workstation is fine for remote work so long as it's not a "workstation".

The biggest issue with PT for remote is that people don't dedicate and tech out a machine for recording ONLY. They'll put all manner of other things on it and not look into what it's doing the the file sys, the OS, and the recording application itself.

Just broke 100 shows in the past 2 years with a PT HD rig and not a single show lost to it. Had more problems with my MDM and my DATs (but still run them just in case :)

I also second the UPS issue... your UPS needs to last as long as it could take you to get your power back up, and ALL mission critical items need to be on it. Again, it's a PITA, but it works...

On the note of making more money with remote... I've done well with independent video production companies (music, comedy, and broadcast), as well as cash plus spec deals with indie artists. Unless you're Steve or Kooster or DFX or MTV Nashville, you're probably not outfitted with enough truck/gear for the big label gigs anyway. Stay in the appropriate market for your business model and price accordingly. I also find that a big time saver and cost efficency for me is using my truck as my office/control facility. Electric, phone, and DSL are cheaper than what studio rent would be in my location. Just my 2 cents worth....

[bunnerabb]

I don't mean to try and steer this back on to the topic, but aren't the more minute facets - of the obvious need to back up and use rendundant recorders - pretty much less than germaine to the whole raison d` etre for this thread?

[bunnerabb]

That being said, I'll try to contribute something, if I can, instead of just complaining.

Sorry.

The approach I'm taking to mobile is rather a bit on the low end, because in my present situation, I can't dosh out for lots of incredbile gear.

I'm upgrading to a couple of HDR's, this year, and going to see where that goes.

My approach is to basically have a truck, or in my case - a van, for now - fitted out with what you need to get the job done.

Recorders, console, snakes, splitters, power ISO's. HVAC, treatmets, etc... so that you can meet almost any need for mobile location tracking. The balance of it, and I hope this is of some use, is that one of the reasons that a lot of larger studios are going nipples north is simply, overhead.

Overhead is a killer.

With a well designed, small mobile unit and a decent mix facility, I think that, all in all, there lies a lot of opportunity to make a decent income.

If you can offer mixdown services, after the fact - for your musicl clients, it saves them money and you earn more. Without the stunning overhead of a tracking facility / studio.

This low overhead mix room can also - if properly designed - offer such things as a voiceoever suite, or A for V or even small scale foley and scoring. With so many DAW's offering full surround mixing, decent 5:1's and a room with decent acoustic designs can offer your A for V remote clients (small film concerns, local shoots, budget and indie film people) a viable way to get a one stop product.

Local bands tracking live for demos or releases are usually pretty broke, but if they're more willing to cut one check for a start to finish production that can take their live tracks to a mastering lab without paying a slew of people, this can benefit a mobile unit with a viable mix suite.

I think that more and more bands - whose prime directive it to play out and get gigs - are moving towards the idea of small format but talented and capable remote recording for gig demos, and away from more expensive tracking rooms that often aren't conducive to achieving the sound that the band wants. This is simply because they have limited amounts of studio expeience and would be better served by getting an accurate document of their live shows in order to sell more shows with booking agents.

A very viable sales point for blossoming artists who need to have a viable demo kit.

So, essentially.. target your market and try and offer them the best overall range of salient services, and keep your overhead low, especially in the low-end of the market where you're not doing dailies for Lord of the Rings or parked outside of the Royal Albert Hall.

Old news, but I hope to spark discussion with it.

Thanks.

- bunner

[gregrw]

Funny I should see this thread right now: I'm going to an on-site in about an hour, and I'm doing some audio-for-picture tomorrow! So this will have to be quick...

I have a full-time day job, so my involvement with audio is strictly part time. I've been doing it for a few years now, and have never made any serious $$, so maybe I shouldn't be posting!! :-)

I use the DA-78hr and analog. I don't trust computers, though I may, in the near future, change that attitude, or at least go to a standalone hard disk.

I think I would be doing more biz if I could hook up with some collaborators, others who do the same kind of work. I think they would be doing more biz, too. Note that I don't say "competitors" because I firmly believe that there is more than enough work to go around. I have tried to email several other studios in the Boston area, only to be ignored or told...politely of course... to screw. LOL!! I suppose that's the nature of any business. That's OK, because I *have* hooked up with a few other people, and we're working on getting our collective butts in gear. Whether we'll ever be doing this full-time I don't know, but for now, I'm still having a blast!

Along those lines, if anyone in the Boston/Worcester/NH area would like to shoot the breeze, by all means, drop me a line. I promise I won't tell you to screw!! :-) I also won't take your clients and I know you won't take mine...not that I have any... :-)

Where is Steve Remote in all of this?

My setup in a nutshell: Two '78s in a shock case, a third in another, 3 that stay home, 4 outboard pres in a regular case, mics and cables in legal, flourescent milk crates, adaptors in an old tool box that I call "the funny box." The board sits on top of the recorder and pre cases, with the third recorder off to the side. That's at the gig *and* in the vehicle...which is a Subaru! (Very careful packing is a must.) Hey, it's a PITA to move, but I can still move each case by myself, it sets up and breaks down quickly, and does not take up a heck of a lot of space.

Everyone I've recorded says they like to do so in their space. Almost everyone I've recorded live has said they liked the sound but hated their own performances!! :-)

There, now I'm late, so I won't even proofread. I'll tell ya'll tonight how today went!

-GRW